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malta 写了： 2023年 4月 1日 14:35 Ford说变速器油220F区间是正常的。可问题是他那个10R80，只要年头稍微长一点，三五万迈，特别是八万以上得时候，很多人report说是变速器jerky，换挡不顺畅。有一位，上个月还是这个月油温高达300F，所以他上来问是不是要更换变速器了。这在Gen4 Expedition的论坛上是个最常见流行得话题。而GMC/CHEVY得10L80，和FORD是合作研发的，是一样的变速器，我确实没看到过那么多抱怨变速器问题的。GMC/CHEVY的大型SUV都是有air to oil auxiliary transmission cooler，继承了truck的传统，空气散热，变速器油温180F以下。Ford Expedition和非Rapter trim得F150，就是一个heat exchanger，用coolant散热。我只能推测10R80变速器是因为长期高温造成问题比10L80多不少。

FORD的狡辩言辞的最大漏洞是没给变速器油温一个比较大的buffer。如果只在公路上天天上下班，可能是出问题的可能性不打。可大家掏了七八万去买expedition，是会偶尔越野或者拖车的，至少也是会普遍在洲际公路上高速行驶。特别是科罗拉多州那种山区州，上坡拖车，负载过大，变速器温度急剧升高。按照ford的说法，油温260F超过半个小时变速器就得考虑更换了。就是拖车时230F，没有temparature spike，长期下来也肯定比180F造成的损坏更多啊。

malta 写了： 2023年 4月 1日 14:35 Ford说变速器油220F区间是正常的。可问题是他那个10R80，只要年头稍微长一点，三五万迈，特别是八万以上得时候，很多人report说是变速器jerky，换挡不顺畅。有一位，上个月还是这个月油温高达300F，所以他上来问是不是要更换变速器了。这在Gen4 Expedition的论坛上是个最常见流行得话题。而GMC/CHEVY得10L80，和FORD是合作研发的，是一样的变速器，我确实没看到过那么多抱怨变速器问题的。GMC/CHEVY的大型SUV都是有air to oil auxiliary transmission cooler，继承了truck的传统，空气散热，变速器油温180F以下。Ford Expedition和非Rapter trim得F150，就是一个heat exchanger，用coolant散热。我只能推测10R80变速器是因为长期高温造成问题比10L80多不少。

这本是一个闭环的自动控制系统。如果说油温高达300F还没有散热介入的话，可能是系统哪里出问题了。或者说就一个heat exchanger不够在极端使用的情况下提供足够的散热，那就是设计缺陷。但无论如何，如果把启动散热从190F降低到180F，如果180F不会因为温度太低而导致其他副作用的话，这个思路还是对的。 变速器油220F区间正常未必是最优。长期处于温度高端，即使正常区域，也会导致性能降级。所以我说可能优化没有做到最好。

Bluesky 写了： 2023年 4月 1日 15:00 这本是一个闭环的自动控制系统。如果说油温高达300F还没有散热介入的话，可能是系统哪里出问题了。或者说就一个heat exchanger不够在极端使用的情况下提供足够的散热，那就是设计缺陷。但无论如何，如果把启动散热从190F降低到180F，如果180F不会因为温度太低而导致其他副作用的话，这个思路还是对的。 变速器油220F区间正常未必是最优。长期处于温度高端，即使正常区域，也会导致性能降级。所以我说可能优化没有做到最好。

为啥能上到300F我就不知道了，应该是有faulty,比如oil pump啥的坏了。但就是啥也没坏，平时expedition变速器温度也在220F上下。我也觉得纳闷，为啥195F得thermostat，能到水温到210多，然后变速器油温能上220。也不知道他那thermostat怎么造的。根据论坛讨论，换了180F得节温器，coolant和变速器油温都在190出头，那就还行。我现在开的车油温才176，最高到过186。一拖车，oil pump就用air cooler散热了，所以拖车油温从来没上过180F。今天我刚好把前脸拆了换灯泡，它那transmission oil cooler得面积和engine coolant cooler基本上一样大，稍微小一点，难怪呢。

malta 写了： 2023年 4月 1日 11:28 长篇大论，不知所云。

watch the videos and get re-educated.

https://www.youtube.com/w

https://www.youtube.com/w

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/

Ye'are still buzzing nonsense and stupidity. At least go learn some SAE basic mechanical principles and get 60/100 atleast. Don't tell me you dunno what's SAE???

I got perfect score on my SAE engine/tranny drivetrain test so NO thank you I got zero interest your nonsense tuber quotes. Me personally follow only true expert tubers, Ryan/McUncle/BisforBuild/RollaChriz alike. And I am big tech contributor inside yota FB groups, from building to butt-tuning.

It's COMMONSENSE thermostats are not for high-temp regulation, but it is regulating LOW-temperature letting your engine warming up faster( recall SAE: oil pressure is determined by both journal clearance & oil TEMP/viscosity, and remember when you building the engine setting tight measurements, rings gapping, cross-hatching etc. ) and don't cool down too much if you're low load cruising in rainy weather.

What you're sillius confused is thinking thermostat openning temp as limiting high-temperature, which is non-sense, because all cars coolant temp is limited only by cooling capacity & load, and for DAILY CARS they all lacking in cooling cap under heavy load/low speed.

Thermostat openning temp is for don't let colder coolant flow through it, thus warming up faster after cold start. Yeah if your car warming up so fast so hot you could run a aftermarket colder thermostat for lil catching time after cold start, but same flow and cooling capacity, won't get you any meaningful results. Since DAILY CARS lacking cooling cap under heavy load/low speed, even different fans switching temp won't get any difference. Period.

真是让人笑掉大牙。居然拿不知所谓的ytber来证明自己的拍脑袋臆测。好歹看下真正认真用功的tubers吧。

节温器不是控制高温的，它只是说水温够了可以去散热片降温了，只是一个“开始”，根本对实际水温不会有任何影响这是一个常识常识常识，任何考过SAE正规造过车修过车的不会不知道。再说一遍节温器的初衷是不要浪费功夫在还没上来的水温，加快热车保持水温不要比理想运行水温低太多。丫是控制低温的不是控制高温的。丫对于高温唯一影响是个额外的阻力，只要装了就会影响一点点流量。

高温仅仅取决于车子的散热能力和机械负载发热量。过度重载大脚油，你就是把节温器拆掉，也一样可以开锅爆缸。车子散热力跟不上，当然就只会升温-加大温差散热-爆肝-…等等。。。

莫名其妙。既然这菜车是重载发热，就把热交换热油器 换成空冷（我们每天都在做的简单），或者增加水量和泵流量做好漩涡扩张放气。完全不用任何功夫换个节温器就像解决。。。车商全都不如您脑子好？？？

Riikanbkk 写了： 2023年 4月 2日 00:26 真是让人笑掉大牙。居然拿不知所谓的ytber来证明自己的拍脑袋臆测。好歹看下真正认真用功的tubers吧。

节温器不是控制高温的，它只是说水温够了可以去散热片降温了，只是一个“开始”，根本对实际水温不会有任何影响这是一个常识常识常识，任何考过SAE正规造过车修过车的不会不知道。再说一遍节温器的初衷是不要浪费功夫在还没上来的水温，加快热车保持水温不要比理想运行水温低太多。丫是控制低温的不是控制高温的。丫对于高温唯一影响是个额外的阻力，只要装了就会影响一点点流量。

高温仅仅取决于车子的散热能力和机械负载发热量。过度重载大脚油，你就是把节温器拆掉，也一样可以开锅爆缸。车子散热力跟不上，当然就只会升温-加大温差散热-爆肝-…等等。。。

莫名其妙。既然这菜车是重载发热，就把热交换热油器 换成空冷（我们每天都在做的简单），或者增加水量和泵流量做好漩涡扩张放气。完全不用任何功夫换个节温器就像解决。。。车商全都不如您脑子好？？？

expert!

I have a question, I have a 2012, cruze, eco with a 1.4L gasoline turbo engine, 6 speed manual transmission. Now the mileage is 67k miles.

Recently, my car does not act well. I am in Texas, hot. When I run the car in local, stop and go traffic, I could not get enough power, at 2nd gear, 3,000 rpm, when I step on the gas, at first I felt a lack of power, although the rpm is climbing. When I first run the car in cold start, that does not happen. It only happens when I drive a long, stop and go traffic, then stop somewhere, opened the hood, the engine bay is very hot, then drive the car, this happens.

However, if I go a short distance of local then got on highway, total flat road surface, cruising @65 mile/hour, 6th gear, engine rpm is 1,700, the car runs normal. I think that

菜车是重载发热

what if I change the 50/50 coolang to distill water, just in summer. I think that distill water is better than 50/50 coolant in heat transfer.

when I do the change, I will drain and refill the cooling system 3-4 times, I understand that first drain will only get ~60 liquid out off the system, so drain 3-4 times will get 90% of the 'old' liquid out off the cooling system.

Thanks.

wolf_north_1234 写了： 2023年 4月 2日 10:09 expert!

I have a question, I have a 2012, cruze, eco with a 1.4L gasoline turbo engine, 6 speed manual transmission. Now the mileage is 67k miles.

Recently, my car does not act well. I am in Texas, hot. When I run the car in local, stop and go traffic, I could not get enough power, at 2nd gear, 3,000 rpm, when I step on the gas, at first I felt a lack of power, although the rpm is climbing. When I first run the car in cold start, that does not happen. It only happens when I drive a long, stop and go traffic, then stop somewhere, opened the hood, the engine bay is very hot, then drive the car, this happens.

However, if I go a short distance of local then got on highway, total flat road surface, cruising @65 mile/hour, 6th gear, engine rpm is 1,700, the car runs normal. I think that

菜车是重载发热

what if I change the 50/50 coolang to distill water, just in summer. I think that distill water is better than 50/50 coolant in heat transfer.

when I do the change, I will drain and refill the cooling system 3-4 times, I understand that first drain will only get ~60 liquid out off the system, so drain 3-4 times will get 90% of the 'old' liquid out off the cooling system.

Thanks.

oh, at the time of 2nd gear, lack power, the coolant temperature was 206F (97C), the fan was on full running. I think the ECU sense the too much heat and it reduced the power.

wolf_north_1234 写了： 2023年 4月 2日 10:51 oh, at the time of 2nd gear, lack power, the coolant temperature was 206F (97C), the fan was on full running. I think the ECU sense the too much heat and it reduced the power.

My experience on yota stock basemap usually starts when 100C retard timing and richens, drop to quit/idle only at disastrous 130C. If the 97C displayed accurate it might be a lil early for reducing power, of course lacking power is another prob needs through analysis. And of course hot weather won't do engines whp any good since hot IAT, cooling issue, and running AC constantly blablablah.

Also hot weather alone won't affect engine temp that much, but running AC the condensor alone heats adds up like plus 3000rpm or something haha

So about distill water: practically it's perfectly fine. Perfect for the car. BUT in some theory distill water might promote some galvanic corrosion depletion to the aluminium structure -- personally I think that probability is so miniscule non percievable, you could just run distill water no issue, but there're methods:

1) mix aftermarket water wetter -- some reputable brands RedLine etc. are made for running distill water, will negates any galvanic reactions and keep your coolant system like brand new.

2) could run purified drinking water -- not as good as distill+wetter treatment, but cheapo, proven no issue.

...or you could mod radiator stick a marine galvaric sacrificial plug lol, that's a lil extreme no need go this far

------------
And note this: pure water has much better heat capacity than gly-mixed, also slight lower boiling temp, though running water is usually quite beneficial/compatible no issue at all, but for perfectionist make sure 1) cooling system complete bleed off air,
2) all plumbing sound n strong endure boiling pressure;
3) IF cooling system rated could sustain higher pressure, could run higher pressure install uprated coolant caps. I always run my custom TIG coolant systems under 1.3bar(replaced stocko yota 0.9), but for stocko radiator I wouldn't raise beyond 1.1bar.

Riikanbkk 写了： 2023年 4月 2日 12:03 My experience on yota stock basemap usually starts when 100C retard timing and richens, drop to quit/idle only at disastrous 130C. If the 97C displayed accurate it might be a lil early for reducing power, of course lacking power is another prob needs through analysis. And of course hot weather won't do engines whp any good since hot IAT, cooling issue, and running AC constantly blablablah.

Also hot weather alone won't affect engine temp that much, but running AC the condensor alone heats adds up like plus 3000rpm or something haha

So about distill water: practically it's perfectly fine. Perfect for the car. BUT in some theory distill water might promote some galvanic corrosion depletion to the aluminium structure -- personally I think that probability is so miniscule non percievable, you could just run distill water no issue, but there're methods:

1) mix aftermarket water wetter -- some reputable brands RedLine etc. are made for running distill water, will negates any galvanic reactions and keep your coolant system like brand new.

2) could run purified drinking water -- not as good as distill+wetter treatment, but cheapo, proven no issue.

...or you could mod radiator stick a marine galvaric sacrificial plug lol, that's a lil extreme no need go this far

------------
And note this: pure water has much better heat capacity than gly-mixed, also slight lower boiling temp, though running water is usually quite beneficial/compatible no issue at all, but for perfectionist make sure 1) cooling system complete bleed off air,
2) all plumbing sound n strong endure boiling pressure;
3) IF cooling system rated could sustain higher pressure, could run higher pressure install uprated coolant caps. I always run my custom TIG coolant systems under 1.3bar(replaced stocko yota 0.9), but for stocko radiator I wouldn't raise beyond 1.1bar.

Thanks for this long explanation, l have learned something. I will switch to pure distill water this summer, Texas, July and August temperature soars to 100 for an extended period of time. I will change back to 50Ⅱ50 coolant in October. This lacking power only happens in summer, local drive.

Oh, where did you get Toyota baseman? I also want to find Crude baseman and get some idea.

wolf_north_1234 写了： 2023年 4月 2日 13:02 Thanks for this long explanation, l have learned something. I will switch to pure distill water this summer, Texas, July and August temperature soars to 100 for an extended period of time. I will change back to 50Ⅱ50 coolant in October. This lacking power only happens in summer, local drive.

Oh, where did you get Toyota baseman? I also want to find Crude baseman and get some idea.

Oh, I meant Crude basemap.

wolf_north_1234 写了： 2023年 4月 2日 13:02 Thanks for this long explanation, l have learned something. I will switch to pure distill water this summer, Texas, July and August temperature soars to 100 for an extended period of time. I will change back to 50Ⅱ50 coolant in October. This lacking power only happens in summer, local drive.

Oh, where did you get Toyota baseman? I also want to find Crude baseman and get some idea.

Older cars basemap are plenty on internet, depends on brand and community... Like aftermarket PowerFC I've worked on has authentic yota mapping as basemap for start, also LinkG4 has many simulated basemap free for yota & many brands for download. They may not authentic stocko but behaves 95% the same on stocko engine, down to left throttle fuel cut rpm etc all exactly the same PFC base. ( stock fuel & ignition & miscs etc. but some features are omitted for modding, like knock maps aren't there )

Of course new cars has to go through brands software suit or check hacking community

写的长，不等于符合实际情况。save those crap, pls.

Riikanbkk 写了： 2023年 4月 2日 00:08 Ye'are still buzzing nonsense and stupidity. At least go learn some SAE basic mechanical principles and get 60/100 atleast. Don't tell me you dunno what's SAE???

I got perfect score on my SAE engine/tranny drivetrain test so NO thank you I got zero interest your nonsense tuber quotes. Me personally follow only true expert tubers, Ryan/McUncle/BisforBuild/RollaChriz alike. And I am big tech contributor inside yota FB groups, from building to butt-tuning.

It's COMMONSENSE thermostats are not for high-temp regulation, but it is regulating LOW-temperature letting your engine warming up faster( recall SAE: oil pressure is determined by both journal clearance & oil TEMP/viscosity, and remember when you building the engine setting tight measurements, rings gapping, cross-hatching etc. ) and don't cool down too much if you're low load cruising in rainy weather.

What you're sillius confused is thinking thermostat openning temp as limiting high-temperature, which is non-sense, because all cars coolant temp is limited only by cooling capacity & load, and for DAILY CARS they all lacking in cooling cap under heavy load/low speed.

Thermostat openning temp is for don't let colder coolant flow through it, thus warming up faster after cold start. Yeah if your car warming up so fast so hot you could run a aftermarket colder thermostat for lil catching time after cold start, but same flow and cooling capacity, won't get you any meaningful results. Since DAILY CARS lacking cooling cap under heavy load/low speed, even different fans switching temp won't get any difference. Period.

wolf_north_1234 写了： 2023年 4月 2日 13:06

And about my personal fascination with higher pressure, was some specific yota cast iron blocks are of lower casting quality, and we all know from steaming rice that higher pressure -> delayed boiling, thus ensure homogeneous cooling; protect against bubble/water hammer; ensure longlife for lowly yota blocks. It wouldn't be neccessary for most cars but always a bonus haha, as you can see sporty types usually got higher pressure

Also my old post when I first implemented higher pressure coolant system to my retro daily, could be reference:
https://club.6parkbbs.com/enter7/index. ... d=13866819

( Also posted on old mitbbs but that's no more lol )

wolf_north_1234 写了： 2023年 4月 2日 13:02 Thanks for this long explanation, l have learned something. I will switch to pure distill water this summer, Texas, July and August temperature soars to 100 for an extended period of time. I will change back to 50Ⅱ50 coolant in October. This lacking power only happens in summer, local drive.

Oh, where did you get Toyota baseman? I also want to find Crude baseman and get some idea.

No. It is very dangerous to run distilled water. The vapor pressure of pure water is too high. Under high cooling load, the coolant can boil over. You start to see steam coming out from under the hood. Once coolant boils over, you can have air bubbles forming on the hottest part of the engine. Such air pockets will lead to serious overheating. You can easily warp the head or even have cracked engine block.

Have a shop check the loss of power problem. Or get a scanner that is capable of reading live data to troubleshoot. Do not change coolant to water. It is very likely one of the sensors is malfunctioning under high ambient temperature. You do not want to change a $50 minor issue into a full engine replacement.

seymour 写了： 2023年 4月 4日 00:27 No. It is very dangerous to run distilled water. The vapor pressure of pure water is too high. Under high cooling load, the coolant can boil over. You start to see steam coming out from under the hood. Once coolant boils over, you can have air bubbles forming on the hottest part of the engine. Such air pockets will lead to serious overheating. You can easily warp the head or even have cracked engine block.

Have a shop check the loss of power problem. Or get a scanner that is capable of reading live data to troubleshoot. Do not change coolant to water. It is very likely one of the sensors is malfunctioning under high ambient temperature. You do not want to change a $50 minor issue into a full engine replacement.

OK, will not change to pure water.

two days ago, I drove the car in local without turning on AC, ~8 miles. The air temperature was 85F, the speed was 50 miles max, I had a scanner to read the data, Just before I arrived the place, I felt the small loss of power. When I arrived, my scanner read

ECT temperature, 112 C
desired temperature, 105C

Fan was blowing 40%.

I opened the hood, it only took ~ one minute, the ECT temperature dopped to 105C (the desired temperaure).

It is to me that the ambient temperature is the cause.

The remote cause might be the thermostato, maybe it did not fully open. If that is the case, what the data to read to point to the thermostat? In the whole process, I did not have any DTC.

wolf_north_1234 写了： 2023年 4月 4日 09:34 OK, will not change to pure water.

two days ago, I drove the car in local without turning on AC, ~8 miles. The air temperature was 85F, the speed was 50 miles max, I had a scanner to read the data, Just before I arrived the place, I felt the small loss of power. When I arrived, my scanner read

ECT temperature, 112 C
desired temperature, 105C

Fan was blowing 40%.

I opened the hood, it only took ~ one minute, the ECT temperature dopped to 105C (the desired temperaure).

It is to me that the ambient temperature is the cause.

The remote cause might be the thermostato, maybe it did not fully open. If that is the case, what the data to read to point to the thermostat? In the whole process, I did not have any DTC.

8 miles at 50 miles per hour. That is only 10 minutes. coolant going to 112C in 10 minutes is pretty quick. consistent with thermostat stuck partially closed. I assume your car use a mechanical thermostat that is not able to set a code. You can watch coolant temperature during the first 10 minutes of driving. If your plot it as a function of time and does not see it start to level off at the thermostat open temperature, then you have a bad thermostat. Another way is to take an infra-red thermometer to measure the temperature of the radiator. If it is close to 112 C, then thermostat is okay. If it is 60 C, then you thermostat is bad. Good luck!

seymour 写了： 2023年 4月 4日 20:20 8 miles at 50 miles per hour. That is only 10 minutes. coolant going to 112C in 10 minutes is pretty quick. consistent with thermostat stuck partially closed. I assume your car use a mechanical thermostat that is not able to set a code. You can watch coolant temperature during the first 10 minutes of driving. If your plot it as a function of time and does not see it start to level off at the thermostat open temperature, then you have a bad thermostat. Another way is to take an infra-red thermometer to measure the temperature of the radiator. If it is close to 112 C, then thermostat is okay. If it is 60 C, then you thermostat is bad. Good luck!

Thanks for the suggestion.

In the past two days, I researched on my car's cooling system. Get to the point, the cruze controls everything electronically, the thermostat is also electronically controlled, it uses an electronic resistor as a heater, and different voltage to control the heat generated, as a result the thermostat opens at diffrent temperature, like the day I saw my ETC 112 C, the thermostat was only 35% open, at that time, the fan was also on, 30%.

Anyway, it is much involved than I original thought. I think the best solution for my current situation is to fully flash the cooling system (flush 3-4 times using distill water), then use the pure coolant, try to get 50/50 into the cooling system. BTW, I have not done coolant flushing more than 5 years.

thanks again and wish you all the best.

wolf_north_1234 写了： 2023年 4月 4日 09:34 ???: OK, will not change to pure water.

Hi if you check my replies in details you know there's usually nothing to worry about...
1) for normie daily cars since water has 20% more heat capacity than gly-mix, usually could just swap. Of course your car going 112C fast is lil abnormal should source that before hand, but summer 112C 50mix is only ~105C at most when running PURE water.

2) cooling system caps are pressured for a reason the usual 0.9-1bar caps will raise boiling temperature by 20C. Bubble shocking hammering could be VERY dangerous -- that's why I said for perfectionist make sure 100% bled off air and maybe increase pressure. BUT then for daily grocerie getters: since PURE water will lower the max temperature, and you're UNLIKELY get to 120C suppose everything sorted out, I fail to see that's a big prob... And since you're experienced in car maintenance you should know how to maintain cooling system properly I suppose

3) I run all my cheapo cars PURE water only -- whether daily getter stocko plumbing, or track day / drag meeting with diy TIG plumbing floor it smashing that Lambo etc. lol. For many years. And inside all jacket and plumbing looks pretty more than acceptable. Convince me.

Of course I live in tropical weather. Being pauper I also always running purified drinking water only. If you run distilled water with proper treatment I mentioned even better, I suppose there wouldn't be any issue( if abnormal heating sorted out ).

4) as I said cooling system caps are pressured for a reason, the usual 0.9-1bar caps will raise boiling temperature by 20C. For all my DIY handmade plumbing all have swirl pots( extract & make sure only air in the entire system are at highest expansion pot ) and 1.3bar higher pressure cap. Not only that gives more 10C space 130C boiling for safety and faster cooling( when hotter ), but also totally removed needs for reservoir as entire cooling system rarely go beyond 1.3bar and no leaking to reservoir. No ganrantee but I found 1.1bar caps are generally OK for normie stocko plumbing if everything proper, would give 5C more space before 125C boiling

5) from my experience thermostats are purely mechanical and reliable usually lasts, unless abandonned junkyards it rarely go stuck. No experience on elec thermostat but as the elec motor serves as fine control on top mechanical function, should be similar reliable perhaps? Than I'll seek diagonizing other issue first step, like run the car heavy pedal but don't use AC or full heater, if big difference I know it's AV plumbing or fans' problem, or engine AFR not abnormally lean then deffo the prob, or pressure wash radiator see if any stuck, etc etc... or sorta like those.

加个at cooler kit

mechanic9 写了： 2023年 4月 7日 13:00 加个at cooler kit

Hi. Bro.

My car is a 6 speed manual, 1.4L turbo gasoline. Not an Automatic Transmission car.