very cool! I do not understand why you want to move the weight to the back for a FWD car. I thought it made sense only for RWD.
You now have less traction in the front. Much more likely to skid when starting from a hill. It is even less likely to drift it on a curve, not that any FWD is a drifter. You have more understeering problem.
Also polycarbonate windshield for street use is so dangerous. If you get in a crash, rescue workers can not break your front windshield to get your out. also glass does not burn if the engine catches fire....
As long as you enjoy it. Good luck and drive safe!
Re: [多图杀猫]不服输的TS焊工继续自修车笔记#5
发表于 ： 2023年 6月 5日 17:36
由 Riikanbkk
seymour 写了： 2023年 6月 5日 15:01
very cool! I do not understand why you want to move the weight to the back for a FWD car. I thought it made sense only for RWD.
You now have less traction in the front. Much more likely to skid when starting from a hill. It is even less likely to drift it on a curve, not that any FWD is a drifter. You have more understeering problem.
Also polycarbonate windshield for street use is so dangerous. If you get in a crash, rescue workers can not break your front windshield to get your out. also glass does not burn if the engine catches fire....
As long as you enjoy it. Good luck and drive safe!
Yep also had thought that lexan might to too strong and pointy glass breaker would be useless lol, but worry not I only changed windshield and quarter windows, side window still tempered glass and rear still laminated one. Not that I don't wanna use all-lexan( to reduce weight! half as glass ), but side window needs molding and full-heating to form the curve... That's why usually side windows are much juicy pricier from lexan aftermarket-parts dealer...
Plus as ( Pike's peak style ) DIY 4130 chromoly 1-3/4" dia, 0.100" thickness fullcaged it's already difficult troublesome getting in/out of the car lol. Have to follow strict postures and procedure, almost cult ceremonial lol. Of course pros would be, general speaking it won't deform and traps me in, even in presume severe situations
About weight distribution, it's most for handling / perfectionism... Who doesn't like perfect balanced( front-back ) corner weight! Also though this car Celica Alltrac is AWD, it is infamous for being very fwd-biased and quite front heavy understeering until goes REALLY fast( in stock setting it won't drift under 80-90mph have to go into corner like rocket leadfoot ).
Plus we all know even for FWD cars, 50/50 balanced could be much beneficial handling / traction aside of course. Celica is 60/40 and since AWD no worries traction nor oversteer ever. Brings a lil closer to 50/50 the better! Though the rad would be a trinkle maybe now at best 55/45 my estimation... ( tubular front, ac delete, abs delete, dash delete, single seat, battery + 200a fuse to boot etc. etc. )
Lol俄脸书E文写的发的，不想再写中文了直接发这个吧。Lol weekend fun activity, check flow for swirlpot before welded up, it's annoying I googled but didn't find any simple see-through or fow test video for swirl-pots. I'll post test video link here( since I never practiced voice after TS I sounded like scrap, so I'll just post a link don't click if dislike it... ):
---------------------------
Simple test showed me geometry/angle is really critical! 4-inch dia. pseudo inline 180deg is terrible almost no effect at all, 90deg is Ok acceptable, and 135deg swirls like crazy! And i made it 4-inch dia. thought that's an upgrade from my previous 3-inch pseudo-inline, but perhaps 4-in is too large for practical water pump pressure; except maybe weld a center pillar to promote swirls perhaps? But too much hassle I designed it 104deg it's acceptable enough. Center pillar could be a fun test for later.
Now I understand the small dia., large height, vertical designs might be very much effective it it fits. Geometry really makes it good or worthless( since viscosity; reserve height; are too variable depending on road and driving conditions, and pressure/volumn flow rate depends on pump not easy to tune ).
---------------------------
Making of swirl-pot, one DIYer 2 working days not in rush
发现装着驾驶座实在没空间焊第二个floor naca duct。费尽力气拆出来座位（我的小身子骨，把死重的偷油獭原装7th gen座位从笼子里拉出来，累死了），把duct焊了。这个RHD driver side 有 main hoop 落脚挡着，只能做成90°望天。反正接上水箱之后，水箱风扇吸力吸着没大区别
A lot of research and tax payer money went into NACA submerged inlet development, in the beginning there were 5 separate scientific investigations undertaken over a period of about 10 years, by some of the best scientist and engineers in the country. The name of the NACA submerged air inlet comes from the organization that first developed it, National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics, the predecessor to NASA. One of the NACA scientific investigations was completed and came up with the NACA duct with the divergent parallel walls, wanting a higher pressure recovery they launched another scientific investigation and came up with the curved divergent ramp NACA duct, that we know today, that has higher pressure recoveries. The first investigations were done small scale, in later investigations performed on full scale models; pressure recoveries were even higher, because of the difference in the boundary layer thickness, from small scale to full scale. NACA ducts are efficient and have little or no drag. For the best results the NACA duct should be located where the boundary layer is the thinnest. That will normally be near the front of a surface it is placed in, as the boundary layer will become thicker, the further it travels over a surface. The engineers that designed the NACA duct, wanted the lowest drag with the highest pressure recovery they could possibly get.
Velocity ratio is the amount of air that can flow through a given size at free stream speeds as opposed to actual real world, operational airflow through a similar size. The NACA duct forms a vortex on each wall that will force more outside air to flow into the inlet than normally would, generating a small ram effect. The two vortices improve the pressure recovery and improve air flow through the duct. The vortices are formed and work best when the air flow through the duct is at a continuous high speed, at lower inlet air speeds the vortices will break down and the duct will lose part of its pressure recovery. If a NACA submerged inlet were used to supply air to the engine intake manifold, it would be more suited to a situation like LSR than most other forms of racing, because the throttle is normally wide open or close to it the entire run, keeping the air flowing through the diffuser, preventing the vortice structures from breaking down. In racing where the driver is continuously on and off the throttle starting and stopping the airflow, the vortices would never get a chance to form and start there ram effect. A NACA submerged duct with curved convergence walls will have a 20% to 30% higher pressure recovery than a NACA duct with straight parallel convergent walls and have velocity ratios 20% to 50% higher also, due to the twin vortices functioning more efficiently with the curved convergence walls than with the straight parallel convergent walls. If you look at the curved convergence wall NACA duct closely, you will notice that the walls follow the contour of a vortice, that is why they are more efficient, they promote the vortice structure and increase the efficiency of it. The air flowing over the top and down the walls of the NACA duct is what forms the vortices, so all the corners should be left sharp to promote the creation and structure of the vortices. The early engineers didn’t realize that the vortices were being formed inside the duct, they found out by accident, after the straight walls were reshaped to follow the airflow streamlines along the sides of the duct, thus giving us the curved convergence walls we all know today.
The NACA duct has an advantage over other types of inlets for certain inlet and airflow requirements. The placement of the NACA duct is more critical than for other types of inlets because of boundary layer thickness and local air velocity. As the speed of the vehicle increases boundary layer thickness will increase also, decreasing the effectiveness of the NACA inlet. A lot of thought should go into where to place the NACA inlet beforehand. A well designed NACA inlet placed at an ideal location had a pressure recovery of .97 at a speed of 245MPH and a pressure recovery of .95 at a speed of 400MPH. The small differences between the pressure recoveries were due to the boundary layer thickness increasing with the speed, reducing the efficiency of the twin counter rotating vortices. A NACA duct has good pressure recovery when used in a region of low air velocity and a thin boundary layer. NACA ducts are best for systems that need only a small amount of air flow diffusion. Pressure recovery will be better if placed in a thick boundary layer but the velocity ratio will decrease. NACA ducts have reduced internal ducting and fewer bends, with less weight and also have a large reduction in drag compared to conventional external scoops. The divergence of the walls of the duct gradually lets the air expand and reduce the chance of separation. NACA ducts do not have as good a pressure recovery or velocity ratio as normal external style scoops, which can have a velocity ratio of over 100 percent, creating a positive pressure in the scoop and diffuser system, having a ram effect, and thereby increasing power at high speeds. The NACA duct external drag can actually be a negative number in certain situations, because of the removal of the boundary layer behind the inlet.
The NACA duct should have a width to depth ratio of between 3 and 5. That is the ratio of duct entrance width to entrance height. The NACA duct should have a ramp angle of between 5deg and 7deg. If the duct entrance ramp angles become too steep, the airflow can separate from the surface of the ramp and reduce airflow through the duct dramatically. The ramp angle can be up to 10deg without a significant pressure loss, less wall divergence should be used for smaller ramp angles. Ramp angles of 15deg or more will result in a large loss to the pressure recovery characteristics, a steeper ramp will make a shorter duct but as ramp angle increases efficiency decreases. All corners and edges should be left sharp to aid in the generation and structure of the vortices. The curved divergent ramp walls improve the pressure recovery, because the twin counter rotating vortices function more efficiently than a straight parallel wall NACA duct. The counter rotating vortices generated on each side of the ramp, force the extra airflow down the center of the ramp between the 2 vortices and into the entrance. About 50% of the body of the twin vortices will extend out of the NACA duct, above the surface of the vehicle, through the boundary layer and pull high energy air from above the boundary layer and into the duct. The pressure recovery at the end of the ramp and at the duct entrance can be over 90 percent after diffusion, in ideal situations. Pressure recovery can be improved with higher ramp angles up to 10deg and the divergent walls result in reduced pressure loss. The pressure loss at the ramp inlet will be dependent on the pressure along the ramp and the thickness of the boundary layer the submerged inlet is placed in. If turbulent airflow is allowed to flow into the submerged ramp, it will increase drag and cause pressure recovery to be reduced due to interfering with the formation of the vortices and causing the airflow to become detached from the ramp.
The best pressure recoveries will be with curved divergence walls. Wall divergence is the ratio of the width of the ramp entrance to the width of the submerged entrance. The divergent walls reduce the pressure loss by the air entering the duct and reduce boundary layer air flow into the duct. Thicker boundary layers reduce the pressure recovery at the submerged entrance, because it will reduce the efficiency of the twin counter rotating vortices, if the boundary layer is sufficiently thick enough so that the vortices will not be able reach above the top of the boundary layer, it would reduce pressure recovery and efficiency by as much as 30%. Pressure recovery will be increased if deflectors are used, regardless of boundary layer thickness. The use of the deflectors will increase the drag somewhat, and the height of the deflectors should be in accordance to the height of the boundary layer they are placed in. With the use of deflectors placed on top of the walls and the use of curved divergence, pressure recovery will be increased. The difference in pressure recovery with duct angle of attack is small. When the duct is located in a curved surface, deflectors will be necessary.
The lip is the shaped protrusion above entrance at the end of the submerged ramp. The shape of the lip must give a high speed at low inlet velocities. The lip should have an airfoil shape. When increasing duct divergence it will increase the angle of attack of the lip and by increasing ramp angle decreases the angle of attack of the lip. Adding curvature to the inner surface of the lip improves flow characteristics, adding curvature to the outer surface only will increase flow loss, by adding curvature to the inside and the outside of the lip surface will benefit flow the most. The lip should have a radius to prevent flow separation. Increasing camber and nose radius will have the best effect on flow. By submerging the lip below the surface in which the entrance is placed in, will be more efficient, but if the lip protrudes slightly above the surface the effect is not harmful. Pressure distribution over the lip will be changed drastically if the ramp angle is changed.
The entrance is the opening at the end of the ramp and is below the body surface, it is the area between the ramp floor and the lip. A square entrance has greater pressure loss than a rectangle entrance; hence the pressure recovery of a square entrance is less than that of a rectangle opening. Because the rectangle entrance is more efficient, that is why we use the width to depth ratio of between 3 and 5. The rectangle air entrance is more efficient because being flat and wide lets the twin vortices function more freely and gives more room between them, in the ramp, to ram the airflow between them and into the entrance at the base of the ramp. The rectangle entrance being more shallow and wider, will allow the body of the vortices to extend above the surface of the vehicle further and hopefully through the boundary layer. The square entrance will not let the bodies of the vortices stick out above the vehicle surface as far and thus loose part of their ram affect due to the ramp being a deeper depth. If the NACA duct is placed in a situation where the airflow is ramming into the entrance due to circumstances outside, efficiency can be increased with Corner baffles, small triangles added to the top corners above the entrance, where the top of the wall meets the entrance.
The NACA submerged inlet and the rear diffuser under the rear of a lot of race cars, function in almost the same way and have a lot in common. The twin counter rotating vortices inside the diffuser ramp and having the peak negative pressure at the entrance to the ramp from the vehicle surface, the peak pressures will follow the entrance to the ramp as the ramp angles are changed and it moves the ramp entrance locations.
The NACA duct has had a bad rap for a long time by people that were improperly designing it or improperly using it. Designed properly and employed in the correct area and situations, the NACA submerged duct can have pressure recovers and velocity ratios approaching those of a conventional style external scoop with a lot less drag. The reason we do not see NACA submerged inlets in a lot of racing classes is because of their poor performance in on-off accelerator situations, so that would cover pretty much all race classes that involve cornering and braking.
Methods can be employed to further increase the airflow through the NACA duct and through the pipe and ductwork leading from the inlet. That is for another set of post at a later date, as time constraints permit.
Re: [多图杀猫]不服输的TS焊工继续自修车笔记#5
发表于 ： 2023年 10月 7日 03:21
由 Riikanbkk
左侧两个naca进气焊好了，向前下倾5°，尽可能减少积水。
xx11-xx15
对于折衷/compromises clearance & 4" big port 搞的20°ramp怎么看着也都不对，不过反正车子也不是灰机，能进气就行了。但是通过实际自制/安装经验，更改了一下设计，麻烦一些减少到ramp 13°，虽然还是不理想但应该远远超过现阶段过度折衷版
xx16
Well if I explaine here, it might go very political and unpleasant to read and TLDR, you've been warned lol... And to Mod: if you decide this is improper plz just del sorry thanks
As a transgender programmer/engineer, I've hated by most fellow Chinois folks, all my relatives hated me, growing from this environment no wonder I'm very deeply socialphobe and 'dumb'. At the company I working at the time, I'm the sole CAD/BOM/PLC/Fanuc/CG programming/Automated AI designing plugin programming... They pretty much used me as employee-everything, gave me low salary and send me on what no others will handle. Pretty much every automation hubs theirs are one-man designed by me by my own automated plugins, sends detailed BOM to equipment contractor, so the company saved from contractors' designing charge. One of their biggest hub could be delayed to months as the contractor couldn't travel here during covit times, they let me handle structural welding and automation software and all the electrical wiring, the contractor was stupid at PLC controlling so I deleted all, and written new my own. With all hundreds cabinets my new wiring diagram. And still compliant to contractor's remote server communication. The giant hub was well into operation in covit times 1 month ahead of schedule.
But as a socialphobe I'm really awkward at many situations, during boss chief executive's meeting with big customer, I straight out pointed boss's a tech dumbo and is speaking nonsense. And when project manager let me handle project everything he just gone flirt with girls and have funtime, I publicly annouced the fact, and states he should and least go solve the severe container shipping delay which I have no authority over. And after some very violent clashes with colleague, I spoke with boss something have to be solved, and I'll have hire lawyers for arbitrition, and if I go to your competitors it'll be this company's loss. This is 30th/dec. 31st/dec is new year holiday and I gone vacation, while taking company 'job phone' with me.
That day I took my Celi to a national park, had some off-roading, with my butt-tuning to 18psi 7000rpm Link ROM progress, it was a fun day and fullfiled! And afternoon I took some photo on top of dam, and set on go back travel return to my home. last thing I remeber I just get on the main road from the dam pass, and scratched lower frontend underbracing when going down the dam. And was thinking, should go stop at a gas station, restaurant, or sightseeing point. Or straight go home. Then everything was blank. Although I know I definitely driving some further, but total blank. Next time I was awoke, it was 7 days later, 120km away from dam, in the opposite direction to my home!
Now one woman speaks to me, ask for money, she could be asedk me to sign some fishy document since language barrier I really don't know a thing? But my head is all fuzzy I couldn't confirm. I could only remember very slight up to day 12th/Jan/21. I felt very heavy fever-like of discomforts but have no fever symptoms. Which I know very familliar it's op**m and some other seductive. Anyway you know I'm a loner, I've no relatives and friend to contact, knowing this situation abyssal I might had complied with her? But I really don't have money and no savings living on salary and credit card. So she didn't got much of the money she want, but still sends me go. She said I was in an accident and hit a lorry truck, and showed one photo, I immediately noticed this photo is strange, it's an empty truck carrying no payloads, but the tailgate was openned and 90° lowered horizontal, and the tailgate was violently sliced inside Celi's broken windshield and cabin, so it isn't falling down after. Celi would be by normal average body-repair shops standard, completely totalled. Truck's steel thick tailgate definitely A-OK. She gave me back my phone and charger to sends her money( everything my personal effects was returned to me, except company 'job phone' missing, and gopro dashcam smashed ), but I really have no savings, I have besides credit cards only the salary the company issued on 31st/dec my vacation day. She's not satisfied but still use my tiny salary called flatbed pickup truck sends me and Celi off.
OK. I know since I lost more than 10 days of memories, complete blank whatever the reason is, it's simply irresponsible for me to don't accept what she said, I won't say otherwise unless I have considerable reasons. But something fishy when I was repairing my car.
(1) The driver's door waffer lock was picked and a spring jammed, now original Yota key won't work on that door, as an experienced locksmith( my father waspolice technician, for safe locksmith, forensic, firearm and residue etc., even he despised my MtF identification, I still know these thing well from him even better in some ) even I could not fix the waffer cylinder directly as the waffer's tiny spring latch simply broke off.
Well, I'm on vacation that day and the driver's door was working like always. And I always drive Celi with door knob open and windows fully rolled down, as you know, this '94 very early Celi doesn't have a autolock when speed, the small door controller only doing is 1key 2-doors or pressed-lock-button no-auto-unlock when close door. The door lock behaves nothing when speed cruising.
By this I mean if I 'fall unconsciousness' after collision, and the 'collision' is on passengers side driver's door complete intact, there's no reason anyone fumble my doorlock to get me out. As I said dtiver's side mostly intact, I reused all parts no prob, only turning signal plug wire broken during bumper contacting truck rear end( when tailgate reached further inside cabin ) And Celi is my sole car, I have only this single key with me, so when she called flatbed for trailer, there's no reason trailer driver 'picked' wrong key and fumbled door lock.
btw. plz anyone don't ask me these tailgate pictures, I still have them in a dedicated folder, but seeing any of these would be too painful for me. I posted in our group could search old post if must.
(2) my pride, the DIY twin-entry, twin-wastegates, two barrel AA-gun manifold for stock CT20b( yeah you see it right, I did this for stock turbo, I guess I am a lil out of my mind lol ) rebuilt turbo, the twin WGs AA-gun barrels was destroyed by tailgate, and the collector was complete cracked open, even the cast iron turbo support had a small crack.
Seeing this turbo is the first thing I inspected when I started repair Celi, as soon I could collect my mind and have slight memory. I started weld main hoop to mend chassis and immediately borescoped turbine. Saw some splints, and lucky me or why, the inconels vanes are perfect not even a tiny scratch Yeah! ?.... Of course the compressor side same no scratch the entire turbo was perfect. And when I unmount the turbo I found tons literally pile of stainless splints inside, more than borescope could see for port.
Let's suppose I was speeding into tailgate. May be most splinters would be expelled outside due to high pressure? But hardly to think not any single one, during a violent backwards collision, wouldn't follow into turbine.And talking about high speed turbine, nickel cast inconel is hard but not that hard not even a scratch. Ceramic would be exploded already.
Talking about if I braking in panic if 'I see' the tailgate. Oh btw. all cylinders are also healthy clean not a single penny of dust.It's hardly to believe stainless splinters, with my 'anti-lag' retarded let off, would felt zero backpressure and left not any trace both cylinders and turbine. The turbine is so clean even the balance mark when I rebuilt it is still intact to now!
And another one! The ST215 rev4 intake mainifold I'm fitting athe 205 TB lol also cracked badly with some splinters. and of course nothing inside any cylinder nor exhaust. All alum splinters either cracked off big hole, or left inside intake manifold.
--(pg divider)--
I changed back to stock manifold welded WG and now first butt tuning to convert Link ECU back to stock log breathing characteristics, only up to 8%TPS 3200rpm and already seeing slight MGP. Yeah seeing the bright side.
What I'm describing is although no concrete proof, but might be if I could drive an empty lorry, lower my tailgate, reversed into some budget mobile, and claim he speeded into me. Too bad his dashcam especially miscrosd card destroyed. ( and it's just a gopro I'm not even filming boring return trip to begin with. )
(3) To say myself. I have no injury, not hurt, and only a single strange suture scar on my left cheek. And skin around the suture are so clean and . Certain it wouldn't be a left cheek concusion caused 7 days of coma, 12 days of memorie-less, and even lost slight memory from before the sus incident. OK you could say the concussion to forehead might not left any visible scar, but let's remember it's not a short coma. It's 7 days of coma, 5 days after regain consciousness still fuzzy and cloudy, and felt heavily fever-like discomfort but no fever sympton. And let's say some heavy obvious belly-malfunction. And I even lost slight memory from before the sus incident, because thanks Google map at that timingstill have auto-logging, and I have picture identified the place they took tailgate photos. It's far away from the last point I still have clear memory, so at least 20-30 minutes lost. And finally I was taken to another city. Sadly Google auto-log is only power saving low-accuracy, so I still no clue where's the last place I stopped.
I said my relative hated me, but they're also very experienced since most are working Chinois law enforcement sector. I finally broken 10 yrs silence and contacted them, and they pretty munch confirmed this isn't accident. Let's say I also no stranger to accident, I was run over by a fast Iveco bus, my mother saw me "thrown away 20 meters front of bus, but the bus haven't fully braked yet, it runs over you," lucky Iveco's quite good chassis clearance, and I happend to to dead center between wheels, so I just stand up, proceed travel as usual. Driver said it is about 70km/h collision, I lost about 1 minutes of memory, only start from when I hurt to I regain, no beforehand momeries affected. When the driver got down to rescue me, I was already stand up, and proceed to my destination: the toilet cross street... But even this minor, slow, no blood collision, left big dark cyan scars on my back & belly & shoulder for 1-3 months. Comparing my forehead backhead have not the tiniest mark, completely clean, and 12 days of deep slumber.
(4) And you know what. The kidnappers might not even know, this is not the first time I was drugged. I said I'm identified transgender, and although CCP as a left-wing party, the gov and legals are reasonable and friendly with trans, but instead many local culture, the people - the other citizens - hated us. I both voluntarily and forced tried to convert identify as a normal M, but you might couldn't understand how difficult that is, although I don't want it, but my brain felt my soul parasited inside another man's body, everything I did brilliant, he'll get the praise; and all the injury and pains, he felt nothing but doubles on me.
I don't know my parents and relatives had a secret plan, to drag me out of university, send me to "conversion therapy", and they 'therapists' gave and instructed my parents op**m-compound seductives. And of course my pa a police forensic knows how to use drugs not even need to be instructed.
And I was drugged and gone complete blank for 3 days. I even lost maybe hour of memory beforehand. After lots recollection I could remember last thing we finished dinning at a restaurent( when my parents might mixed in seductives ), the dining may took a hour long, but I can't remember a thing any details, except the restaurant name... And some said I actually only unconscious for one day and regained at secnd day, confused and in rage they saw me 'fought with doctors and nurses' but only be subdued by strong 'henchdog patients'. ( those're some strange situation some normal citizen have been privately imprisonned for more than 10 yrs and just accepted. Like one loner old man have few relatives and freinds, and a big house, his only relative 'sends' him in claim he's mental disordered, and claimed the house as her own. And the loner old man is also social awkward no one outside really cares about him )
They say I fought 'in rage'. And was then directly injected large dosage seductives. And unconscious for another two days and don't remember anything.
Lol and do I need to remind but it's common knowledge op**m and likes are famous for fever-like withdraw discomfort and belly-malfunction let's call it that... but 5 days memory impaired even after regain consciousness. I must say if this is what I thought, that must be a heck of dosage may even near LD50. Before my surgery, when I was in most despaired state, I took 6000mg phenobarb and some wintermins... I fell unconsciousfor 3 days and 3days cloudy after regain. ( Let me add mention here, how stupid was me, after TS surgery, my mind and body liberated and living life is just so happy, even after this sus incident, overcome difficulties with friends and resuscitated Celi more closer to my dream mobile, living is just fullfiled and satisfying! )
-----------------
I know it's TLDR lol. I know those are only strong support reasons, but no concrete evidence not ever. As a loner no connections( only my kat ), messed up for 12 days all critical evidence already gone for a while. Especially even I'm mostly sure it is not normal circumstance, like someone intended. But no reasons pointing to a party, except 'job phone' missing but still possible in a mess. it could be local bandits as covit nonsense messed tourism industry darn hard and many gone broken and change. I didn't look into police, as I'm really no confidence, if the other party is who I think they're, they're big BOI company going public. Way better connections with police and legal than a no name engineer like me.
And since tank still have 30-35 litres gas, about right since I filled up half way to national park( 240km to my home ). So likely it didn't happen at a gas station which i most suspected. I could only locate rough tailgate photo location. This is also confusing and I could be mistake in my logic. But something deffo fishy here, I believe.
" alt="VkkGkb.jpeg[/img]" border="0">
。
