对俄乌死亡/伤亡的极可靠定性比较 --> 乌克兰的比俄的更多

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meiyoumajia楼主
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#61 Re: 对俄乌死亡/伤亡的极可靠定性比较 --> 乌克兰的比俄的更多

帖子 meiyoumajia楼主 »

lancet的成本价?大约3万5千美元


it is very very cost effective against its targets




Mikhail Zvinchuk, head of the Russian think tank Rybar: «The main thing is that the product is constantly being modernized. Developers hear feedback, they ask for it themselves from the departments. They are constantly looking for those faults that can be corrected»



Colleagues from the Lostarmour portal have reported the 1000th published episode of Lancet loitering ammunition being used in the SMO zone. This time, the drone targeted the Grad MLRS southwest of Kurakhovo, about 20 km from the front line, using a thermal imaging camera.

▪️ According to the collected statistics on the use of Lancets since July 2022, 32% of the targets were destroyed. Another 52% were damaged or incapacitated.

▪️ In 49% of cases, the targets of the kamikaze drones were artillery installations such as self-propelled guns, towed howitzers, and MLRS. This makes the Lancet the most effective Russian counter-battery weapon currently.

▪️ Approximately 12% of the targets were anti-aircraft missile systems and radars of Ukrainian formations, which are relatively scarce and highly sought-after weapons by the enemy.

▪️ About 10% of the Lancets used were equipped with an auto-target acquisition system designed for effective operation in the presence of interference from enemy electronic warfare systems.

The list includes only objectively confirmed strikes; in reality, there are even more. However, the figure of 1,000 episodes clearly demonstrates the scale of production of these loitering munitions and their use by Russian troops.




Russia outguns Ukraine in drones by 7-to-1 – reports

Russia has seven drones for each Ukrainian one, says the Eurasian Times news outlet, citing Ukrainian officers. The media admits that Moscow has an “enormous edge” over Kiev in drone warfare.

It likewise stresses that Russia boosted drone production and plans to produce more than 32,000 drones each year by 2030 with domestic producers reigning the market. Also, Russia's military-industrial complex deploys cutting-edge models such as the Lancet and Orlan-10, while Kiev assembles drones partially via grassroots crowdfunding.
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#62 Re: 对俄乌死亡/伤亡的极可靠定性比较 --> 乌克兰的比俄的更多

帖子 meiyoumajia楼主 »

在同类/可比较、能起重要作用并有绝对数量优势的武器中,俄军除了有lancet和geranium,
还有1个

它对最前线正起着非常重要的作用


they are also very very cost effective comparing with their defensive weapons

https://www.ft.com/content/0d6612f2-5d5 ... 2309991430

The guided weapons are commonly referred to as “glide bombs” and consist of decades-old projectiles that would typically be dropped from Su-34 and Su-35 warplanes directly over targets. By adding cheap pop-out wings and a satellite navigation system, these former “dumb bombs” can now be launched by Russian bombers deep behind the front line and out of reach of Ukraine’s air-defence systems. 

“For them, it is much cheaper than using hundreds of thousands of artillery shells, when one of these bombs will demolish several buildings,” said Vlad, a 27-year-old soldier serving in the eastern Donetsk region.

The glide bombs can carry between 500kg and 1.5 tonnes of explosives for over 60km, leaving craters up to 20m wide and 6m deep.

“They are very scary, very lethal,” said Bohdan, another soldier in Donetsk. “Even a kilometre away, the blast rips the doors of buildings off their hinges.”

They are so destructive that Ukrainian analysts with Deep State, a group close to the defence ministry, have called them a weapon for which Kyiv’s forces have “practically no countermeasures”.

Ukrainian foreign minister Dmytro Kuleba told the Financial Times that his country’s soldiers “are being massively and I would say even routinely attacked by guided aerial bombs that wipe out our positions”.

The Russians have attacked Ukraine with around 3,500 such guided aerial bombs just this year, according to Ukrainian defence officials, a 16-fold increase over 2023. In the third week of March alone, Russia “launched over 700 guided aerial bombs,” President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said. 

“They are very simple in essence, so you cannot jam them, you cannot hide from them — the only way to protect yourself from them is to shoot down the bomber that carries this bomb,” explained Kuleba.

Yet to achieve that, Ukraine needs significantly more modern air defence systems.

The International Institute for Strategic Studies, a London-based think-tank, said in a report published this month that “the growing number of glide-bomb attacks are indicative of the scarcity of air defence weapons”.


。。。And Ukrainian officials told the FT that Moscow’s glide bombs would probably be used to blast paths through the new fortifications Kyiv is rushing to build to stave off the advance of Russian forces.

In the last week of March, Kharkiv, Ukraine’s second-largest city, was hit by two “unified multipurpose” gliding bombs which have a range of up to 90km. It was the first time Kharkiv had been hit by aerial bombs as opposed to missiles and drones since the full-scale invasion.

。。。


Now Russia’s air force is beginning to play a pivotal role and turning the tide of the war in its favour, experts say. And it is the development of glide bombs that has opened the door to do so.

The Institute for the Study of War wrote in a recent assessment that the Russian military had used “mass glide-bomb strikes to tactical effect in their seizure of Avdiivka in mid-February”. Hundreds of glide bombs razed the town in Donetsk region and forced Ukrainian troops to retreat.

“These bombs completely destroy any position. All buildings and structures simply turn into a pit after the impact of just one,” Egor Sugar, a Ukrainian soldier who fought in Avdiivka, wrote on X. “And they drop 60-80 on us in one day.”


Michael Kofman, a military analyst at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, said that the sheer number of glide bombs together with their destructive force had an impact on soldiers’ morale.

“If you see the crater that two 500-kilogram bombs make, they will make an impression on you,” he said.  

The head of the armed forces has also cited glide bombs as a major reason for ordering his troops to retreat from Avdiivka, which handed Moscow its first notable battlefield win in nearly a year.

“Due to constant bombardment by guided aerial bombs, the integrity of our defence was broken, which gave the enemy the opportunity to gradually advance,” Syrsky said.

Russia is now ramping up production of glide bombs and updating the 500-kilogram FAB-500 and the 1,500-kilogram FAB-1500 bombs.

Earlier this month, Russian defence minister Sergei Shoigu visited a plant in Nizhny Novgorod region where he inspected production lines. The defence ministry said that the factory had “increased the production of FAB-500 aerial bombs many times over [and] doubled the production of the FAB-1500.” 

The ministry said it had also begun the “mass production of the FAB-3000,” an even larger, 3,000-kilogram bomb that can also be fitted with wings and guiding systems.

However, western experts and even popular pro-Kremlin military bloggers on Telegram who operate channels dedicated to Russia’s air force have expressed scepticism about the FAB-3000. Some have called it impractical, as it could be carried only by Tupolev Tu-22M bombers. 

Oleksiy Melnyk, a retired Ukrainian air force commander and now co-director of foreign policy and international security studies at the Razumkov Centre, a Kyiv-based think-tank, said the Russian modernisations are inexpensive compared to the high cost of many modern weapons, especially cruise missiles, which can cost several million dollars each.

While glide bombs are not as precise as ballistic cruise missiles, they can still hit “within 10 or 20 metres” of their target and cause severe damage, Melnyk said.

Experts believe Kyiv’s future successes on the battlefield may depend on its ability to defend against glide bombs. That means getting more western help, and fast.

“Kyiv is confronted by the threat that an attritional war in the air domain will increasingly favour Russia without adequate support from the US and its allies,” the IISS said.

“Ukraine’s ability to continue to counter Russian air threats and impose costs on [Russia’s air force] remains important to the outcome of the war.”

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2 ... d898a55182
The Russian air force is lobbing a hundred glide-bombs a day


The KAB glide-bombs are a “miracle weapon” for the Russians, Ukrainian Deep State noted. And the Ukrainians have “practically no countermeasures.”

To put into perspective how dangerous the situation is for Ukrainian brigades right now, consider that it took just 125 KABs a day for several days finally to make the defense of Avdiivka, a former Ukrainian stronghold in eastern Ukraine, untenable for the Ukrainian army’s 110th Mechanized Brigade.

The brigade had other problems, of course—specifically, a desperate shortage of artillery ammunition that became inevitable once Russia-friendly Republicans in the U.S. Congress cut off aid to Ukraine in October.

But the KABs were the final straw. “All buildings and structures simply turn into a pit after the arrival of just one KAB,” wrote Egor Sugar, a trooper with the Ukrainian 3rd Assault Brigade, which covered the Avdiivka garrison’s retreat in mid-February.


The pace of the glide-bombings may have ebbed somewhat as the shoot-downs spiked. But then, around March 8, a Russian drone spotted the Patriot battery on the move 20 miles from the front line—and cued an Iskander ballistic missile that blew up two Ukrainian launchers.


The Ukrainian air force has just three batteries of American-made Patriots, altogether with around three-dozen launchers. Cut off from further U.S. aid, the air force couldn’t risk losing more Patriots—not when the service also was trying to defend Ukrainian cities against Russian missiles.

So in mid-March, the glide-bomber shoot-downs ended—and the glide-bombings resumed at a rate of a hundred per day. Standard Russian tactics right now are for the Sukhois to, according to Deep State, “water” a Ukrainian garrison with KABs—and then for Russian infantry to attack in small but frequent “banzai charges.”

“Despite a certain stabilization of the front at the beginning of the month, the enemy has been carrying out a large number of rollbacks and banzai attacks for the past 10 days,” Deep State reported Saturday.

It’s unclear how the Ukrainians might end the KAB crisis. Ukrainian lieutenant general Ivan Gavrylyuk said the belated arrival of the Ukrainian air force’s ex-European Lockheed Martin F-16 fighters should help.

And yes, that’s possible. The F-16 has better sensors, self-defenses and missiles than the air force’s current Sukhoi and MiG fighters have. If Kyiv is willing to risk its precious F-16s—just 50 or 60 of which it’s set to receive starting this spring or summer—it might succeed in beating back the glide-bombers.

But it could be a while before the F-16s are in country in sufficient numbers to make much of a difference. In the meantime, the Ukrainian air force only can deploy ground-based air-defenses against the Russian bombers.

Leaving aside the risk to the air-defense crews, these crews also are low on certain types of missiles, Gavrylyuk said.

That’s an obvious reference to the air force’s best Patriot missiles, which mostly are made in the United States. Unless and until Republicans relent and approve $61 billion in long-delayed funding for Ukraine’s war effort, the Ukrainians might never have enough Patriots to fight back against the glide-bombing that now is the key to Russia’s battlefield gains.

“These and other factors make it difficult for the defense forces of Ukraine to carry out the tasks of repelling the aggressor,” Gavrilyuk said.
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#63 Re: 对俄乌死亡/伤亡的极可靠定性比较 --> 乌克兰的比俄的更多

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holy cow!


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#64 Re: 对俄乌死亡/伤亡的极可靠定性比较 --> 乌克兰的比俄的更多

帖子 meiyoumajia楼主 »

against bunkers (say, in the city of kharkiv)?



In Ukraine, Russia's new weapon was compared to nuclear.

Former SSU Colonel Starikov referred to the Russian FAB-3000 aviation bomb as a nuclear weapon. Oleg Starikov, a retired colonel of the Security Service of Ukraine and a military expert, commented on the power of the FAB-3000 bomb, which is being produced by Russia's military-industrial complex.

Starikov compared Russia's new weapon to nuclear and called the FAB-3000 bombs "the most terrifying."

"They started producing FAB-250, FAB-500, and now - FAB-3000. It completely destroys all fortified areas,"
he noted.

The expert added that the FAB-3000 is equipped with a universal gliding and correction module, which is also mounted on smaller caliber bombs. FAB-500 in this configuration inflicts serious damage on the front lines of combat. According to Starikov, the FAB-3000 will worsen the morale and psychological state of the Ukrainian soldiers.

Earlier, expert Vasiliy Dandykin stated that the FAB-3000 will allow for the destruction of enemy strongholds with high efficiency. He suggested that the bomb will be deployed in the near future.
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#65 Re: 对俄乌死亡/伤亡的极可靠定性比较 --> 乌克兰的比俄的更多

帖子 meiyoumajia楼主 »

Fab5000 and fab9000



图片





"""""
Don't know where a blast radius of 1.6km for the MOAB came from. Both the GBU-43/B MOAB and M338 Davy Crocket warheads would produce a 3.6 Psi blast overpressure at a range of 150m. Sufficiently to damage but not demolish buildings.
You'd expect them to be similar, as the M388 had twice the yield, but only about 50% of the energy from a nuclear weapon is transferred into blast.
""""""












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#66 Re: 对俄乌死亡/伤亡的极可靠定性比较 --> 乌克兰的比俄的更多

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#67 Re: 对俄乌死亡/伤亡的极可靠定性比较 --> 乌克兰的比俄的更多

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#68 Re: 对俄乌死亡/伤亡的极可靠定性比较 --> 乌克兰的比俄的更多

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interesting

re-watch a previously posted video clip

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#69 Re: 对俄乌死亡/伤亡的极可靠定性比较 --> 乌克兰的比俄的更多

帖子 meiyoumajia楼主 »

meiyoumajia 写了: 4月 9, 2024, 8:52 pm 2022年6月5日(也就是开战还不到3个半月)以后,被证实死的所有4个俄国将军中3个死于导弹,还有1个被地雷炸死,也就是说没有1个是死于(本主题最需要关注的)炮轰;而之前只有1个被证实是被炮轰。
对“之前”的补充:
还有两个的死亡是由于:所驾的为配合地面进攻设计的su25被击落,和在基辅机场被狙击手射杀。
也就是说:还有两人死因不明。

俄军头几个月(可以说半年)投入军力近15万。大约相当于32个旅/8个师?应该会有60个将军在当时的多个前线地区。

双方各有多少将军呢?几天前chatgpt告诉我:俄1100,乌200。我不是很清楚这有多准确或相关,因此没有发出来。

现在看到了一个俄军在开战前10年(多?)的1个升职表。共有640被升职的将军:::::::::

Army General 大将 5

General-Colonel 上将 26
General-Lieutenant 中将 126
General-Major 少将 372

Admiral 海军上将 6
Vice-Admiral 海军中将 22
Rear-Admiral 海军少将 69

General-Lieutenant of Justice 法务中将 1
General-Major of Justice 法务少将 2

General-Major of Medical Service 医务少将 11
640


其中615人有相关的年份。对每年列的数量:::::::::::
2011 1(不完全?)
2012 9(不完全?)
2013 71
2014 59
2015 65
2016 83
2017 63
2018 63
2019 81
2020 73
2021 47(可能不一定完全?)


(在大规模战争期间每年的提升数量应该会明显更高)

https://russiandefpolicy.com/promotion-list-2/

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#70 Re: 对俄乌死亡/伤亡的极可靠定性比较 --> 乌克兰的比俄的更多

帖子 meiyoumajia楼主 »

关于炮。。。我有了更多的数量概念,但没时间而且可能本来就没有足够的公开信息让人了解足够多的重要细节

双方在战区的炮数都会有数千
俄在前线的榴弹炮可能就近2000

查了比较有名的m777。美国在第一年给乌克兰援助的清单里可能就有近百m777榴弹炮。(后来似乎外援具体内容变得更不公开透明。应该是加强了对这种重要信息的保密,以防被俄方做规划时利用。)
它最大的1个缺点是没有自移性而比较容易被发现后被击。后面有一个根据视频或图像估出的损失的m777数目。90门被毁。。。

https://media.defense.gov/2022/Dec/21/2 ... -USAI1.PDF

142 155mm Howitzers and up to 1,004,000 155mm artillery rounds;
(不一定全是M777,但我记得在2023年初被传为已经到位的m777大约100)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2 ... f8ec954308

There might be 2,000 Russian howitzers along the 600-mile front line in Ukraine. Altogether, Russian batteries are firing at least 10,000 rounds a day.
。。。


According to Vereker, the Kremlin in 2021 was sitting on 12,300 old towed artillery pieces. After nearly two years of fighting, it was down to 7,500 stored towed pieces—implying it has yanked the barrels off as many as 4,800 old guns.

https://lostarmour.info/tags/m777
上次由 meiyoumajia 在 4月 10, 2024, 3:04 pm,总共编辑 1 次。
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#71 Re: 对俄乌死亡/伤亡的极可靠定性比较 --> 乌克兰的比俄的更多

帖子 pspsps »

wokao 写了: 4月 9, 2024, 8:31 pm 能智障到用俄乌将军阵亡数来反问的,就是傻逼

脑子稍微不傻的,知道有逻辑漏洞,自然就不问了

你就是个傻逼文科生
28楼是反问吗?你这智障小学语文课一直在翘课吗?懂不懂什么叫质疑?

只要乌军炮火准确率高有可能导致俄军更多将军阵亡,就构成合理质疑。
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#72 Re: 对俄乌死亡/伤亡的极可靠定性比较 --> 乌克兰的比俄的更多

帖子 meiyoumajia楼主 »

m777的价格可能近400万美元

而这些种可以摧毁它的无人机可能只要不到4万美元!






有时候炮弹也可打到
(但这个显然没有被完毁)
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#73 Re: 对俄乌死亡/伤亡的极可靠定性比较 --> 乌克兰的比俄的更多

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#74 Re: 对俄乌死亡/伤亡的极可靠定性比较 --> 乌克兰的比俄的更多

帖子 meiyoumajia楼主 »

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/10/politics ... index.html
Russia is producing about 250,000 artillery munitions per month, or about 3 million a year, according to NATO intelligence estimates of Russian defense production shared with CNN, as well as sources familiar with Western efforts to arm Ukraine. Collectively, the US and Europe have the capacity to generate only about 1.2 million munitions annually to send to Kyiv, a senior European intelligence official told CNN.

The US military set a goal to produce 100,000 rounds of artillery a month by the end of 2025 — less than half of the Russian monthly output — and even that number is now out of reach with $60 billion in Ukraine funding stalled in Congress, a senior Army official told reporters last week.

“What we are in now is a production war,” a senior NATO official told CNN. “The outcome in Ukraine depends on how each side is equipped to conduct this war.”

Officials say Russia is currently firing around 10,000 shells a day, compared to just 2,000 a day from the Ukrainian side. The ratio is worse in some places along the 600-mile front, according to a European intelligence official.



https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-russ ... 53861734da
Ukraine will be outgunned by Russia 10 to 1 in weeks without US help, top Europe general says

WASHINGTON (AP) — The top general for U.S. forces in Europe told Congress Wednesday that Ukraine will be outgunned 10 to one by Russia within a matter of weeks if Congress does not find a way to approve sending more ammunition and weapons to Kyiv soon.

The testimony from Army Gen. Christopher Cavoli, head of U.S. European Command, and Celeste Wallander, assistant secretary of defense for international security affairs, comes as Congress enters pivotal weeks for voting for aid for Ukraine, but there’s no guarantee funding will be improved in time.

Ukraine has been rationing its munitions as Congress has delayed passing its $60 billion supplemental bill.

“... That will immediately go to 10 to one in a matter of weeks,” Cavoli said. “We’re not talking about months. We’re not talking hypothetically.”
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#75 Re: 对俄乌死亡/伤亡的极可靠定性比较 --> 乌克兰的比俄的更多

帖子 wokao »

说你是反问,是抬举你,你不用狗咬吕洞宾

你个傻逼文科生还是没明白因果推导,让人喷饭


不用罗嗦,你到底有无俄乌将军在前线概率数据?没有的话还腆着脸“质疑”的就是傻逼。


pspsps 写了: 4月 10, 2024, 3:03 pm 28楼是反问吗?你这智障小学语文课一直在翘课吗?懂不懂什么叫质疑?

只要乌军炮火准确率高有可能导致俄军更多将军阵亡,就构成合理质疑。
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#76 Re: 对俄乌死亡/伤亡的极可靠定性比较 --> 乌克兰的比俄的更多

帖子 meiyoumajia楼主 »

曾经的疯狂地缺乏节制

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/nation ... -rcna56210
Nov. 10, 2022

Russia is firing a staggering 20,000 artillery rounds per day, a senior U.S. defense official estimated, while Ukraine is firing from 4,000 to 7,000 rounds daily.
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#77 Re: 对俄乌死亡/伤亡的极可靠定性比较 --> 乌克兰的比俄的更多

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wokao 写了: 4月 10, 2024, 4:44 pm 说你是反问,是抬举你,你不用狗咬吕洞宾

你个傻逼文科生还是没明白因果推导,让人喷饭


不用罗嗦,你到底有无俄乌将军在前线概率数据?没有的话还腆着脸“质疑”的就是傻逼。
向质疑者要概率数据的才是真傻逼吧。按你这种逻辑,论文答辩的时候,台上的人胡说八道一番之后,台下听众在质疑的时候却先要当提交一份小论文,列出自己的数据?
ferrygao
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#78 Re: 对俄乌死亡/伤亡的极可靠定性比较 --> 乌克兰的比俄的更多

帖子 ferrygao »

所有大毛二毛的人统统死光 美弟会高兴吗
打倒蝴蝶 打死蝴蝶 石压死蝶
蝴蝶飞,被鸟追
蝴蝶死了万人捶
meiyoumajia楼主
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#79 Re: 对俄乌死亡/伤亡的极可靠定性比较 --> 乌克兰的比俄的更多

帖子 meiyoumajia楼主 »

在2022年4月30日前,可能乌军90%-95%(just saying)的炮击是从苏/俄制炮发出
在那年4月16日前,可能92%-98%(just saying)。。。

在有可能被炮火击杀的所有3名被证实的俄将军中,1名被炮火击杀于4月30日之前的某日,还有两名由于未知原因分别死于4月16日之前某日和6月5日之前某日 。
其中至少2名(也就是2到3名)死于西制炮火的概率很可能不超过50%。从这些小数据(在本质上)正反双向互推其他军人死亡非常扯淡。普通炮弹几乎都是用于比较大的目标或者区域目标。因此把俄罗斯的炮火打不低于2倍折扣应该是比较保守的。


可以说M777是第一批大炮
4月送得很急,什么时候能被占比较大比例地用在前线还不确定
到5月底,大多数炮火应该还是在依靠原有类型的炮

https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stori ... -official/

April 29, 2022
About 60% of the 90 howitzers planned for delivery are now in Ukraine, the official said, along with 155 mm rounds.
。。。
In the next 24 hours, more than a dozen flights are expected from the United States and that will include more howitzers and 155 mm rounds.

Other items in this shipment will be Phoenix Ghost Tactical unmanned aerial systems and radars, the official said.

In the last 24 hours, there have been almost 20 deliveries via airlift from seven nations that have been received in the region at multiple locations. The shipments include mines, small-caliber rounds, 122 mm rockets, helmets and body armor, the official said.
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#80 Re: 对俄乌死亡/伤亡的极可靠定性比较 --> 乌克兰的比俄的更多

帖子 wokao »

你算个屁的质疑。看看原文(#28),我没有说两方谁炮弹准,我只是说老将会说乌军炮弹更准确。

然后你一马当先,把俄军将军阵亡数比乌军多,和乌军准确度联系起来,然后你就傻逼了,因为你没有数据证据建立“将军死亡数多”-->“更准确”链接。我至少有一个间接证据,因为你个傻逼自己跳出来当了一把证据来支持我。

你个傻逼文科生
pspsps 写了: 4月 10, 2024, 4:59 pm 向质疑者要概率数据的才是真傻逼吧。按你这种逻辑,论文答辩的时候,台上的人胡说八道一番之后,台下听众在质疑的时候却先要当提交一份小论文,列出自己的数据?
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