No peace in Ukraine

[cng]

Both Russia and Ukraine have red lines that are mutually exclusive making negotiations extremely challenging. The U.S. has said both sides must make concessions. The fate of one-fifth of Ukrainian land now under Russian control is likely to take center focus.

For Moscow, the presence of NATO member states, as either peacekeepers or a reassurance force outside of the alliance framework, is a red line. But Moscow hasn’t mentioned any specific concessions.

For Ukraine, which is in a weaker position, the question of territory held by Russia that it does not have the military means to retake is central. For Kyiv, it is both a red line and a potential concession.

Zelenskyy has said his country will never recognize the territory as Russian. But Ukrainian officials concede that, while officially this always will be Kyiv’s position, the occupied territories are likely to remain under Russian control for some time.

“Partners know our red lines — that we do not recognize the occupied territories as the territories of the Russian Federation, and we do not recognize them,” Zelenskyy told journalists recently. “This is my political will as president. And this is the political will of our people. This is a violation of international law and the Constitution of Ukraine.”

Ukraine also rejects restrictions on the size and capabilities of its armed forces as well as limits on its ability to join international alliances such as NATO and the European Union.

[wh]

Both Russia and Ukraine have red lines that are mutually exclusive making negotiations extremely challenging. The U.S. has said both sides must make concessions. The fate of one-fifth of Ukrainian land now under Russian control is likely to take center focus.

For Moscow, the presence of NATO member states, as either peacekeepers or a reassurance force outside of the alliance framework, is a red line. But Moscow hasn’t mentioned any specific concessions.

For Ukraine, which is in a weaker position, the question of territory held by Russia that it does not have the military means to retake is central. For Kyiv, it is both a red line and a potential concession.

Zelenskyy has said his country will never recognize the territory as Russian. But Ukrainian officials concede that, while officially this always will be Kyiv’s position, the occupied territories are likely to remain under Russian control for some time.

“Partners know our red lines — that we do not recognize the occupied territories as the territories of the Russian Federation, and we do not recognize them,” Zelenskyy told journalists recently. “This is my political will as president. And this is the political will of our people. This is a violation of international law and the Constitution of Ukraine.”

Ukraine also rejects restrictions on the size and capabilities of its armed forces as well as limits on its ability to join international alliances such as NATO and the European Union.

上次那个Jeffrey Sachs不是拍胸脯保证俄罗斯不要乌克兰的领土，只要乌克兰保证不加入北约吗？那么乌克兰保证不加入北约，俄罗斯撤军，不就结了吗……

[goodman35]

一切从实力出发，这个就是美国奉行的真理。
结果就是乌割地求和。没有第三条路子。
对于司机黄连再苦也得咽下去。
欧盟只是提供嘴炮支持。
美国断供一切都结束了

[wh]

一切从实力出发，这个就是美国奉行的真理。
结果就是乌割地求和。没有第三条路子。
对于司机黄连再苦也得咽下去。
欧盟只是提供嘴炮支持。
美国断供一切都结束了

俄罗斯侵占的地方是乌克兰建国时给乌克兰的吧？现在是俄罗斯人多，所以有民族矛盾是吗？我觉得不该割地，民族矛盾可以慢慢解决；割地更让俄罗斯有恃无恐，侵略行为得不到应有的惩罚。实在摆不平的话就公投决定领土去留，但必须保证公投公正……

[fukwumao]

最可恶的就是欧盟

作弊的代表

Ukraine为他们流血牺牲

他们天天在那打嘴炮

法国在瞎嚷嚷

德国在买俄罗斯油

不干人事

[wh]

最可恶的就是欧盟

作弊的代表

Ukraine为他们流血牺牲

他们天天在那打嘴炮

法国在瞎嚷嚷

德国在买俄罗斯油

不干人事

为什么说乌克兰是为欧盟流血牺牲？

[shanghaibaba]

俄罗斯侵占的地方是乌克兰建国时给乌克兰的吧？现在是俄罗斯人多，所以有民族矛盾是吗？我觉得不该割地，民族矛盾可以慢慢解决；割地更让俄罗斯有恃无恐，侵略行为得不到应有的惩罚。实在摆不平的话就公投决定领土去留，但必须保证公投公正……

要是公投，乌东肯定归了俄罗斯。

[wh]

要是公投，乌东肯定归了俄罗斯。

为啥？乌东有多少俄罗斯人？只查到全国有17.3%的俄罗斯人。

[shanghaibaba]

为啥？乌东有多少俄罗斯人？只查到全国有17.3%的俄罗斯人。

没有群众基础，2014之后乌东怎么可能喊独立？

[wh]

没有群众基础，2014之后乌东怎么可能喊独立？

现在讯息发达，少数人的声音可以无限扩大。西藏新疆内蒙不也一直有人要独立吗。

[shanghaibaba]

现在讯息发达，少数人的声音可以无限扩大。西藏新疆内蒙不也一直有人要独立吗。

乌东大部分乌克兰族也是倾向于俄罗斯的。
当时亲俄的亚努科维奇下台之后，乌东宣布独立，就没有参加后来的乌克兰总统选举投票，立刻亲西方的总统得票率就到了60%。
而乌东参加乌克兰选举的时候，亲俄的和亲西方的选票基本是差不多的。乌东总共才几百万人。这样看，乌东的选票，基本都是亲俄的。

[wh]

乌东大部分乌克兰族也是倾向于俄罗斯的。
当时亲俄的亚努科维奇下台之后，乌东宣布独立，就没有参加后来的乌克兰总统选举投票，立刻亲西方的总统得票率就到了60%。
而乌东参加乌克兰选举的时候，亲俄的和亲西方的选票基本是差不多的。乌东总共才几百万人。这样看，乌东的选票，基本都是亲俄的。

那和买提的老将小将、左派右派一样，势均力敌，无法和平共处……需要有个独立公正、不依附美俄任何一方的总统，严打暴力破坏行为，加强爱国教育……

[cng]

那和买提的老将小将、左派右派一样，势均力敌，无法和平共处……需要有个独立公正、不依附美俄任何一方的总统，严打暴力破坏行为，加强爱国教育……

"爱国教育"? 哈哈哈！

[laomei9]

吹牛B一天解决俄乌问题的碧莲哪里去了

[Trump]

乌东大部分乌克兰族也是倾向于俄罗斯的。
当时亲俄的亚努科维奇下台之后，乌东宣布独立，就没有参加后来的乌克兰总统选举投票，立刻亲西方的总统得票率就到了60%。
而乌东参加乌克兰选举的时候，亲俄的和亲西方的选票基本是差不多的。乌东总共才几百万人。这样看，乌东的选票，基本都是亲俄的。

印象里，顿涅茨克和卢干斯克大概80％的俄族，哈尔科夫，奥德萨，赫尔松，扎德罗热 这些地方会有70％亲俄。
基本上，农村大部分是乌克兰人，城市大部分是俄罗斯族

[shanghaibaba]

印象里，顿涅茨克和卢干斯克大概80％的俄族，哈尔科夫，奥德萨，赫尔松，扎德罗热 这些地方会有70％亲俄。
基本上，农村大部分是乌克兰人，城市大部分是俄罗斯族

有80%亲俄，但没有这么高比例的俄族。

[Trump]

有80%亲俄，但没有这么高比例的俄族。

你是对的， 族别基本是对半，俄族略高

[laomei9]

巴以开打了，川币丢脸啦

[wh]

有80%亲俄，但没有这么高比例的俄族。

你是对的， 族别基本是对半，俄族略高

为啥有那么多亲俄的非俄族？

[shanghaibaba]

为啥有那么多亲俄的非俄族？

俄族和乌族其实本来就不好分。有很多成分上写乌族的，搞不好就跟中国人把自己民族写成少民一样，在当时苏联时期可能能混到好处。比如苏联的公务员，会照顾乌克兰人，压制俄罗斯人。这个是大家都知道的。