满清毁了中国，但辽金宋元没有。印度是个很好的参照物

[wokao]

连人殉都恢复的明朝, 用得着黑吗?

还1300万了, 估计连俘虏明英宗的瓦拉领土都算了进去

这不都是你们这些鞑子的套路吗? 为了吹满清就拼命地黑明朝.

历史教科书采用的谭其骧的地图, 无论是永乐时期还是万历时期的明朝领土面积都超过1000万, 巅峰领土超过1300万.

[mmking]

如果以工业文明的scale，确实差不多，都在前一阶段，比如黄川和极左，批次彼此

但在农业文明里，差别大了，没必要彼此彼此

即便烂, 也不比中国差多少, 彼此彼此

[SC4869]

有个国家叫东罗马帝国

你是历史没学好吗？文艺复兴开始前突厥就征服东罗马了，那时候东罗马和欧洲的关系比中东还差

[SC4869]

如果以工业文明的scale，确实差不多，都在前一阶段，比如黄川和极左，批次彼此

但在农业文明里，差别大了，没必要彼此彼此

真的是差远了，文艺复兴前欧洲和东南亚一个水平，阿拉伯统治西班牙700年，法国连看都不敢看一眼

[laomei9]

还有跨历史去比的，这智商

[wokao]

你是历史没学好吗？文艺复兴开始前突厥就征服东罗马了，那时候东罗马和欧洲的关系比中东还差

你的中文阅读理解有问题啊. 我又没说是东罗马帝国在文艺复兴后才保存的希腊文献.

[ruisseau]

你们鞑子玩人殉那不都是常规操作吗? 怎么汉人突然玩了一下你居然这么悲愤, 装的吧?

那是朱元璋死前突然发布的最后一道旨意, 按照现历史学者的考证, 很大可能是朱允炆身边的文官集团伪造出来的, 就是为了政治斗争, 借着朱元璋的名义打击对手罢了. 事实也能证明这一点, 从那以后的人殉全部都是有指向性的, 凡是跟朝堂上掌权的势力有关的后宫妃嫔都不用殉葬, 凡是政治对手的后宫妃嫔都被殉葬了.

你麻痹的, 历史教科书采用的地图你也想黑, 你最好能找点实际的证据出来, 不要像条狗一样在那瞎JB叫唤.

连人殉都恢复的明朝, 用得着黑吗?

还1300万了, 估计连俘虏明英宗的瓦拉领土都算了进去

[SC4869]

你的中文阅读理解有问题啊. 我又没说是东罗马帝国在文艺复兴后才保存的希腊文献.

你偷换概念有一手的啊，我说的是没有交流，你说“保存”。我一开始高看你了，以为你只是不清楚突厥什么时候征服的东罗马，没想到你真认为东罗马和文艺复兴有关系。西班牙对于文艺复兴的作用远大于东罗马。我们看看chatgpt怎么说。
after the fall of the Western Roman Empire (476 CE), Western Europe entered the Early Middle Ages (often called the Dark Ages), during which literacy and scientific inquiry declined.
Knowledge of Greek in Western Europe largely disappeared, as scholars primarily read and wrote in Latin. Since Byzantine texts were in Greek, they were not easily accessible to Western scholars. During the Islamic Golden Age (8th to 14th century), scholars in the Middle East translated Greek works into Arabic. They didn't merely translate—they also expanded upon this knowledge, making advancements in medicine, astronomy, mathematics, and philosophy.

In the 8th century, the Umayyad Caliphate conquered most of Spain, establishing a thriving Islamic civilization in Al-Andalus, with major centers of learning in Córdoba, Toledo, and Seville.
These cities became melting pots of Islamic, Jewish, and Christian scholarship. Libraries in Córdoba, such as the one in the palace of Caliph Al-Hakam II, housed hundreds of thousands of manuscripts.

major centers of learning like the House of Wisdom in Baghdad made classical works more widely available than in Byzantine territories. Scholars like Al-Khwarizmi (mathematics), Avicenna (Ibn Sina) (medicine), and Averroes (Ibn Rushd) (Aristotle’s commentaries) made Greek science and philosophy more accessible.
During the 12th-century Renaissance, Western scholars, particularly in places like Toledo, Spain, translated Arabic texts into Latin. This was easier than obtaining Greek manuscripts from Byzantium because:
Geopolitical barriers: The Byzantine Empire had limited cultural exchange with Latin Europe due to religious and political tensions (e.g., the Great Schism of 1054).
Linguistic barriers: Western scholars were more familiar with Latin than Greek, and Arabic translations often came with additional commentaries that helped explain the original concepts.


Fall of Constantinople (1453) and Rediscovery of Greek Texts
Before 1453, the Eastern Roman Empire influenced Western Europe and Italy through diplomacy, religious dialogue, trade, and the migration of scholars. Although direct communication was limited by cultural and religious differences, Byzantine scholars played a crucial role in reintroducing Greek philosophy, science, and literature to the West. When the Ottoman Turks captured Constantinople in 1453, many Byzantine scholars fled to Italy, bringing Greek manuscripts with them. This influx of Greek texts contributed to the Italian Renaissance, allowing Europeans to study classical works in their original form for the first time in centuries.

[wokao]

鞑子不是野蛮民族吗? 前两代有人殉很正常, 但是跟朱元璋的将近五十个嫔妃都殉葬还是差远了. 而且进入中原后就逐渐没了.

大明可是明粉的先进朝代, 差一点就工业革命了. 怎么能有人殉? 汉朝之后就没了吧? 那些朝代怎么打击政治对手的时候想不到人殉这玩意儿?


你才是条狗, 傻逼一个

你们鞑子玩人殉那不都是常规操作吗? 怎么汉人突然玩了一下你居然这么悲愤, 装的吧?

那是朱元璋死前突然发布的最后一道旨意, 按照现历史学者的考证, 很大可能是朱允炆身边的文官集团伪造出来的, 就是为了政治斗争, 借着朱元璋的名义打击对手罢了. 事实也能证明这一点, 从那以后的人殉全部都是有指向性的, 凡是跟朝堂上掌权的势力有关的后宫妃嫔都不用殉葬, 凡是政治对手的后宫妃嫔都被殉葬了.

你麻痹的, 历史教科书采用的地图你也想黑, 你最好能找点实际的证据出来, 不要像条狗一样在那瞎JB叫唤.

[wokao]

看来你的中文阅读真是HSK水平的

你最初的帖子：

希腊有的中东都知道，不存在说希腊比中东领先，因为中东学的就是在希腊的发现上更进一步。实际上欧洲文艺复兴关于希腊的都是中东记载的

这反应了一种普遍的无知，阿拉伯的作用被片面夸大了。其实东罗马帝国保存了大量的希腊语原著。君士坦丁堡陷落后，这些原著和学者就流落到西南欧比如意大利，后来推动了文艺复兴的发展。我们现在的亚里士多德全集，也基本是根据的东罗马藏本，而不是网上吹嘘的什么从阿拉伯文转拉丁文来的。就连柏拉图的著作也不是从阿拉伯文翻译来的。所以我才说有东罗马帝国。

哪知你不开窍，又冒出什么拜占庭灭亡在文艺复兴前的不相关的话来，让人笑掉大牙。

你偷换概念有一手的啊，我说的是没有交流，你说“保存”。我一开始高看你了，以为你只是不清楚突厥什么时候征服的东罗马，没想到你真认为东罗马和文艺复兴有关系。西班牙对于文艺复兴的作用远大于东罗马。我们看看chatgpt怎么说。
after the fall of the Western Roman Empire (476 CE), Western Europe entered the Early Middle Ages (often called the Dark Ages), during which literacy and scientific inquiry declined.
Knowledge of Greek in Western Europe largely disappeared, as scholars primarily read and wrote in Latin. Since Byzantine texts were in Greek, they were not easily accessible to Western scholars. During the Islamic Golden Age (8th to 14th century), scholars in the Middle East translated Greek works into Arabic. They didn't merely translate—they also expanded upon this knowledge, making advancements in medicine, astronomy, mathematics, and philosophy.

In the 8th century, the Umayyad Caliphate conquered most of Spain, establishing a thriving Islamic civilization in Al-Andalus, with major centers of learning in Córdoba, Toledo, and Seville.
These cities became melting pots of Islamic, Jewish, and Christian scholarship. Libraries in Córdoba, such as the one in the palace of Caliph Al-Hakam II, housed hundreds of thousands of manuscripts.

major centers of learning like the House of Wisdom in Baghdad made classical works more widely available than in Byzantine territories. Scholars like Al-Khwarizmi (mathematics), Avicenna (Ibn Sina) (medicine), and Averroes (Ibn Rushd) (Aristotle’s commentaries) made Greek science and philosophy more accessible.
During the 12th-century Renaissance, Western scholars, particularly in places like Toledo, Spain, translated Arabic texts into Latin. This was easier than obtaining Greek manuscripts from Byzantium because:
Geopolitical barriers: The Byzantine Empire had limited cultural exchange with Latin Europe due to religious and political tensions (e.g., the Great Schism of 1054).
Linguistic barriers: Western scholars were more familiar with Latin than Greek, and Arabic translations often came with additional commentaries that helped explain the original concepts.


Fall of Constantinople (1453) and Rediscovery of Greek Texts
Before 1453, the Eastern Roman Empire influenced Western Europe and Italy through diplomacy, religious dialogue, trade, and the migration of scholars. Although direct communication was limited by cultural and religious differences, Byzantine scholars played a crucial role in reintroducing Greek philosophy, science, and literature to the West. When the Ottoman Turks captured Constantinople in 1453, many Byzantine scholars fled to Italy, bringing Greek manuscripts with them. This influx of Greek texts contributed to the Italian Renaissance, allowing Europeans to study classical works in their original form for the first time in centuries.

[SC4869]

看来你的中文阅读真是HSK水平的

你最初的帖子：

希腊有的中东都知道，不存在说希腊比中东领先，因为中东学的就是在希腊的发现上更进一步。实际上欧洲文艺复兴关于希腊的都是中东记载的

这反应了一种普遍的无知，阿拉伯的作用被片面夸大了。其实东罗马帝国保存了大量的希腊语原著。君士坦丁堡陷落后，这些原著和学者就流落到西南欧比如意大利，后来推动了文艺复兴的发展。我们现在的亚里士多德全集，也基本是根据的东罗马藏本，而不是网上吹嘘的什么从阿拉伯文转拉丁文来的。就连柏拉图的著作也不是从阿拉伯文翻译来的。所以我才说有东罗马帝国。

哪知你不开窍，又冒出什么拜占庭灭亡在文艺复兴前的不相关的话来，让人笑掉大牙。

没事，你读小学英文读不明白，那你从这些数学家的年份找一找规律，找到规律了告诉我文艺复兴什么时候开始
http://aleph0.clarku.edu/~djoyce/mathhist/greece.html
Metrodorus (c. 500)
Simplicius of Cilicia (c. 530)
Anthemius of Tralles (d. c. 534)
John Philoponus (c. 520)
Isidorus of Miletus (c. 540?)
Eutocius of Ascalon (c. 550?)
Isidore of Seville (c. 570-636)
Michael Constantine Psellus (1018-c. 1080)
Georgios Pachymeres (1242-1316)
Maximos Planudes (c. 1255-1310)
Manuel Moschopoulos (c. 1300)

http://aleph0.clarku.edu/~djoyce/mathhist/europe.html
Marcus Terentius Varro (116-27 B.C.E.)
Balbus (fl. c. 100 C.E.)
Anicius Maulius Severinus Boethius (c. 480-524)
Flavius Magnus Aurelius Cassiodorus (c. 490-c. 585)
Bede (673-735)
Alcuin of York (c. 735-804)
Gerbert d'Aurillac, Pope Sylvester II (c. 945-1003)
Adelard of Bath (1075-1164)
John of Seville (c. 1125)
Plato of Tivoli (c. 1125)
Girard of Cremona (1114-1187)
Robert of Chester (c. 1150)
Robert Grosseteste (c. 1168-1253)
Leonardo of Pisa (Fibonacci) (1170-1240)
Alexandre de Villedieu (c. 1225)
John of Halifax (Sacrobosco) (c. 1200-1256)
Campanus of Novara (c. 1205-1296)
Girard of Brussels (c. 1235)
Jordanus de Nemore (fl. 1230-1260)
Wilhelm of Moerbeke (c. 1215-1286)
Roger Bacon (c. 1219-1292)
John Pecham (c. 1230-1292)
Gerard of Brussels (c. 1250)
Witelo (Vitellio) (fl. 1250-1275)
John Duns Scotus (1266-1308)
William of Ockham (c. 1280-c. 1349)
Richard of Wallingford (1291-1336)
Thomas Bradwardine (c. 1295-1349)

[SC4869]

看来你的中文阅读真是HSK水平的

你最初的帖子：

希腊有的中东都知道，不存在说希腊比中东领先，因为中东学的就是在希腊的发现上更进一步。实际上欧洲文艺复兴关于希腊的都是中东记载的

这反应了一种普遍的无知，阿拉伯的作用被片面夸大了。其实东罗马帝国保存了大量的希腊语原著。君士坦丁堡陷落后，这些原著和学者就流落到西南欧比如意大利，后来推动了文艺复兴的发展。我们现在的亚里士多德全集，也基本是根据的东罗马藏本，而不是网上吹嘘的什么从阿拉伯文转拉丁文来的。就连柏拉图的著作也不是从阿拉伯文翻译来的。所以我才说有东罗马帝国。

哪知你不开窍，又冒出什么拜占庭灭亡在文艺复兴前的不相关的话来，让人笑掉大牙。

after the fall of the Western Roman Empire (476 CE), Western Europe entered the Early Middle Ages (often called the Dark Ages), during which literacy and scientific inquiry declined.
Knowledge of Greek in Western Europe largely disappeared, as scholars primarily read and wrote in Latin. Since Byzantine texts were in Greek, they were not easily accessible to Western scholars. During the Islamic Golden Age (8th to 14th century), scholars in the Middle East translated Greek works into Arabic. They didn't merely translate—they also expanded upon this knowledge, making advancements in medicine, astronomy, mathematics, and philosophy.

In the 8th century, the Umayyad Caliphate conquered most of Spain, establishing a thriving Islamic civilization in Al-Andalus, with major centers of learning in Córdoba, Toledo, and Seville.
These cities became melting pots of Islamic, Jewish, and Christian scholarship. Libraries in Córdoba, such as the one in the palace of Caliph Al-Hakam II, housed hundreds of thousands of manuscripts.

major centers of learning like the House of Wisdom in Baghdad made classical works more widely available than in Byzantine territories. Scholars like Al-Khwarizmi (mathematics), Avicenna (Ibn Sina) (medicine), and Averroes (Ibn Rushd) (Aristotle’s commentaries) made Greek science and philosophy more accessible.
During the 12th-century Renaissance, Western scholars, particularly in places like Toledo, Spain, translated Arabic texts into Latin. This was easier than obtaining Greek manuscripts from Byzantium because:
Geopolitical barriers: The Byzantine Empire had limited cultural exchange with Latin Europe due to religious and political tensions (e.g., the Great Schism of 1054).
Linguistic barriers: Western scholars were more familiar with Latin than Greek, and Arabic translations often came with additional commentaries that helped explain the original concepts.


Fall of Constantinople (1453) and Rediscovery of Greek Texts
Before 1453, the Eastern Roman Empire influenced Western Europe and Italy through diplomacy, religious dialogue, trade, and the migration of scholars. Although direct communication was limited by cultural and religious differences, Byzantine scholars played a crucial role in reintroducing Greek philosophy, science, and literature to the West. When the Ottoman Turks captured Constantinople in 1453, many Byzantine scholars fled to Italy, bringing Greek manuscripts with them. This influx of Greek texts contributed to the Italian Renaissance, allowing Europeans to study classical works in their original form for the first time in centuries.

[SC4869]

小学英文你都看不懂吗？你按照上面的阿拉伯数字去猜也应该猜出来你说的东西完全错误吧。1453看不到吗？文艺复兴是1453年开始？你但凡了解一点点数学史就不会这么离谱，文艺复兴十二世纪就开始了
Fibonacci Born c. 1170
Pisa,[2] Republic of Pisa
Died c. 1250 (aged 79–80)
Pisa, Republic of Pisa

[wokao]

看来你不光是阅读问题，还有智商问题。文艺复兴公认是14世纪到16世纪。即便12世纪有了萌芽，也不妨碍拜占庭对文艺复兴的推动。

没事，你读小学英文读不明白，那你从这些数学家的年份找一找规律，找到规律了告诉我文艺复兴什么时候开始
http://aleph0.clarku.edu/~djoyce/mathhist/greece.html
Metrodorus (c. 500)
Simplicius of Cilicia (c. 530)
Anthemius of Tralles (d. c. 534)
John Philoponus (c. 520)
Isidorus of Miletus (c. 540?)
Eutocius of Ascalon (c. 550?)
Isidore of Seville (c. 570-636)
Michael Constantine Psellus (1018-c. 1080)
Georgios Pachymeres (1242-1316)
Maximos Planudes (c. 1255-1310)
Manuel Moschopoulos (c. 1300)

http://aleph0.clarku.edu/~djoyce/mathhist/europe.html
Marcus Terentius Varro (116-27 B.C.E.)
Balbus (fl. c. 100 C.E.)
Anicius Maulius Severinus Boethius (c. 480-524)
Flavius Magnus Aurelius Cassiodorus (c. 490-c. 585)
Bede (673-735)
Alcuin of York (c. 735-804)
Gerbert d'Aurillac, Pope Sylvester II (c. 945-1003)
Adelard of Bath (1075-1164)
John of Seville (c. 1125)
Plato of Tivoli (c. 1125)
Girard of Cremona (1114-1187)
Robert of Chester (c. 1150)
Robert Grosseteste (c. 1168-1253)
Leonardo of Pisa (Fibonacci) (1170-1240)
Alexandre de Villedieu (c. 1225)
John of Halifax (Sacrobosco) (c. 1200-1256)
Campanus of Novara (c. 1205-1296)
Girard of Brussels (c. 1235)
Jordanus de Nemore (fl. 1230-1260)
Wilhelm of Moerbeke (c. 1215-1286)
Roger Bacon (c. 1219-1292)
John Pecham (c. 1230-1292)
Gerard of Brussels (c. 1250)
Witelo (Vitellio) (fl. 1250-1275)
John Duns Scotus (1266-1308)
William of Ockham (c. 1280-c. 1349)
Richard of Wallingford (1291-1336)
Thomas Bradwardine (c. 1295-1349)

[wokao]

所以说你弱智啊。文艺复兴跨了好几个世纪。只要在其间推动了文艺复兴的发展，都可以。你费半天劲扯12世纪证明你脑子进了水

只有你这种弱智才会说，文艺复兴关于希腊的认识 都是 从中东阿拉伯 来的

小学英文你都看不懂吗？你按照上面的阿拉伯数字去猜也应该猜出来你说的东西完全错误吧。1453看不到吗？文艺复兴是1453年开始？你但凡了解一点点数学史就不会这么离谱，文艺复兴十二世纪就开始了
Fibonacci Born c. 1170
Pisa,[2] Republic of Pisa
Died c. 1250 (aged 79–80)
Pisa, Republic of Pisa

[SC4869]

所以说你弱智啊。文艺复兴跨了好几个世纪。只要在其间推动了文艺复兴的发展，都可以。你费半天劲扯12世纪证明你脑子进了水

只有你这种弱智才会说，文艺复兴关于希腊的认识 都是 从中东阿拉伯 来的

你有没有基本的逻辑？没有阿拉伯带来文艺复兴，哪有后面的学习希腊？你就像是那些说元朝数学家最厉害所以数学发达感谢元朝的人。因果和顺序都不清

[wokao]

你有没有基本的逻辑？没有阿拉伯带来文艺复兴，哪有后面的学习希腊？你就像是那些说元朝数学家最厉害所以数学发达感谢元朝的人。因果和顺序都不清

你的基本逻辑是成问题的. 我没有否认阿拉伯对欧洲文艺复兴的正面作用. 但是, 你胡说什么"实际上欧洲文艺复兴关于希腊的都是中东记载的"就是胡扯了.

文艺复兴源头并不单一. 比如欧洲人压根就没有翻译阿拉伯文版柏拉图的著作, 因为人家本来就有. 比如目前的亚里斯多德全集是根据希腊文的原本, 拜占庭一直保留着亚里斯多德著作.