2023年买非hybrid纯燃油车是智商税

[fantasist]

我想不明白这增程车有什么必要
直接开辆油车不久完了么，更环保
主要就是为了车牌和骗补？

增程车为了缓解电车的里程焦虑，而且中国补贴力度比美国大多了。记得上海车牌没摇中号要花十几万一张买，如果车子划在新能源里就可以直接上牌，还不用单双号限行，美国的联邦7500+各州的一些钱折扣根本没法比。

[goFan]

米国油便宜人穷，买不起插混增程车。

[victor]

插混因为电池和电机重量，比油车能耗高一点，但是有动能回收，高速实际总油耗并不差。同款星越燃油版，一样大的油箱，还开不了 1200km 呢。

再说买车又不是只开高速送货，一大半是家附近几十迈，比油车省老多油了。

不知道为什么要买这个？

家里可以充电，肯定电车
家里不能充电，肯定油车
我能想象一个场景就是，家里能充电，但是跑高速多，并且跑的路线充电设施不够？有多少人会这样
唯一解释就是，这些人在骗牌骗补，当汽油车开，在美国肯定没人买

[goFan]

偶就是不买电车，何必跟自己过不去。
插混还便宜，出远门说走就走，想绕远就绕，电车有啥必要呢
在家附近开也不怎么烧油。
油车重一点的安全的，local 油耗基本 15mpg，还是比较费油的，而且低速时噪音大，体验很差

[HouseMD]

增程不是什么最好方案。10年前的时候做插电混动很困难，BMW i3, chevy volt, 还有当年和Tesla风头有得一拼的 Fisker Karmar都是增程车。你可以把它看车电车背了一个汽车发电机，技术实现很容易，但缺点也很明显，需要完整的电车动力系统，和不小的电池，再加完整的燃油系统。其实用油用电没一样可以干得好，占用大量空间，可靠性低，高速耗油比燃油车要高不少。

这十年，混动技术不断进步，丰田混动为例，以前混动才200V系统，只能低速驱动。随着混动系统升级到400V，发动机动力提高，出现了可以高速用电的插电混动系列，比如rav4 prime。这些车，即可以用纯电，也可以烧油。烧油的话，低速电机，高速直驱。技术先进，结构简单优雅，效率高。你如果把增程车看成混合动力车，那简直石器时代得产物。

世界范围内增城车技术早已经被淘汰，2023年中国还有增程车，不能不说是朵奇葩。另以方面，理想这么低效昂贵得东西，居然也能做出来，还有市场竞争力，也是中国电车，电池，汽车供应链非常牛逼得表现

你明显不知道自己在说什么东西。
电池做小点，换成发电机和油缸完全是划得来的交易，而且结构也比插混或者油混简单很多。
这也是为什么理想是三傻中最好卖也最先实现盈利的公司。

[lsheng]

不知道为什么要买这个？

家里可以充电，肯定电车
家里不能充电，肯定油车
我能想象一个场景就是，家里能充电，但是跑高速多，并且跑的路线充电设施不够？有多少人会这样
唯一解释就是，这些人在骗牌骗补，当汽油车开，在美国肯定没人买

电车充电不危险么？手机充电危险，好在它比较小，电车里8000节18650电池，能量相当于24枚电磁炮弹/155mm炮弹。我对电车的要求之一就是停在室外，充电在室外。中国现在地下室停车场要装充电桩都要全楼同意才行，不开电车的人为啥要同意？

[wanmeishijie]

增程混动其实是最好的方案，不知道为什么你帝没有厂家做

技术不达标，不重视环保

[YouHi]

偶就是不买电车，何必跟自己过不去。
插混还便宜，出远门说走就走，想绕远就绕，电车有啥必要呢
在家附近开也不怎么烧油。
油车重一点的安全的，local 油耗基本 15mpg，还是比较费油的，而且低速时噪音大，体验很差

话糙理不糙

[RQ3]

增程也就是国内厂家炒作概念，人傻钱多容易蒙，用油机给电池充电效率低损耗大，美国车厂这么干拿不到补贴了。我记得插电混动是2015年以前就开始卖的产品，我从2015年就开始lease，这类车在美国不好卖，油便宜，以前的车纯电里程也短，十几miles就没电了，所以只能便宜lease，另外可以单人开carpool线

[goFan]

吉利的雷神插混当增程用，里程只降低 50km，不到 5%，说明增程效率还不错

[RQ3]

看了一下ford现在的插电混动，也增加了ev charge模式，估计就是国内吹的增程模式

Auto EV
Ford Escape. Plug-In Hybrid Electric Vehicle Drive Modes This mode provides an automatic use of high voltage battery power during the drive, staying in electric mode when possible and running the engine when needed.
EV Charge
Ford Escape. Plug-In Hybrid Electric Vehicle Drive Modes This mode uses your vehicle's engine to charge the high voltage battery versus plugging the vehicle into a utility grid.
The electric range gained through the EV Charge allows you to switch to Auto EV or EV Now for full electric operation later in your drive. The battery cannot completely charge to 100% when in EV Charge mode. This is to allow for full operation of the regenerative braking system. When the battery reaches its EV Charge limit, the vehicle remains in EV Charge mode and maintains that charge level, until you select another EV Mode, or until you switch your vehicle off.
When you enable EV Charge, a white EV Charge icon appears in the information display.
EV Charge resets to Auto EV when you switch off your vehicle. You may select EV Charge again using the EV button during your next drive.
EV Later
Ford Escape. Plug-In Hybrid Electric Vehicle Drive Modes In EV Later, your vehicle runs on the engine as needed and saves most of the available electric range for later use in Auto EV or EV Now mode.
For example, your initial drive is at high speeds on open roads, but later your drive is at low speeds in an urban area where electric only driving is most efficient. In this case, you can select EV Later for the higher speed portion of your trip and then select Auto EV or EV Now for the urban portion.
When you enable EV Later, a white EV Later icon appears in the information display. EV Later resets to Auto EV when you switch off your vehicle. You may select EV Later again using the EV button during your next drive.
When you select EV Later with the vehicle fully charged or near fully charged, some electric-only driving range is used to discharge the battery. This is to allow for full operation of the regenerative braking system.
EV Now
Ford Escape. Plug-In Hybrid Electric Vehicle Drive Modes This mode provides an electric only driving experience. Do not use EV Now when towing a trailer. The electric drive system is not designed for towing. An EV Now information on demand screen appears. This screen allows you to enable your engine while in EV Now mode.
Your vehicle could accelerate slower and the top speed could be lower than when in Auto EV mode.
You can enable your engine at any time by using one of the following methods:
Press the OK button on the steering wheel when viewing the EV Now information on demand screen. Your vehicle enables the engine as needed and returns to EV Now mode when no longer needed.
Fully press the accelerator pedal. A pop-up message appears. Press the OK button on the steering wheel to enable the engine. When the engine is no longer needed, your vehicle returns to EV Now. The message disappears if you release the accelerator pedal.
Press the EV button. This exits EV Now mode and permits engine operation. To return to EV Now mode, select it again using the EV button.
Your vehicle could enter Engine Enabled mode if system conditions require it. A message displays if this occurs. This is a normal function of the system and your vehicle returns to EV Now mode when possible.
When you enable EV Now mode, a blue EV Now icon appears in the information display. If your vehicle is in Engine Enabled mode, the EV Now icon is amber. EV Now exits when your available electric range reaches zero.

[lsheng]

福特如果沿用丰田的技术肯定是不行的。丰田的混动是汽油机为主的，中国新出的一般是电机为主的。汽油机为主的还需要复杂的变速器，效率不容易提高，变速箱也很难便宜。电机为主的，就是类似特斯拉加个发电机，就是不再需要那么多的电池了，把省下的重量用来放高效燃油机和发电机了。路径不一样，电机为主要想性能好就要提高电动机功率。好在目前超过200马力的电动机很多家都能做，高端的直接彪到1000马力，妥妥跑车的功率。

看了一下ford现在的插电混动，也增加了ev charge模式，估计就是国内吹的增程模式

Auto EV
Ford Escape. Plug-In Hybrid Electric Vehicle Drive Modes This mode provides an automatic use of high voltage battery power during the drive, staying in electric mode when possible and running the engine when needed.
EV Charge
Ford Escape. Plug-In Hybrid Electric Vehicle Drive Modes This mode uses your vehicle's engine to charge the high voltage battery versus plugging the vehicle into a utility grid.
The electric range gained through the EV Charge allows you to switch to Auto EV or EV Now for full electric operation later in your drive. The battery cannot completely charge to 100% when in EV Charge mode. This is to allow for full operation of the regenerative braking system. When the battery reaches its EV Charge limit, the vehicle remains in EV Charge mode and maintains that charge level, until you select another EV Mode, or until you switch your vehicle off.
When you enable EV Charge, a white EV Charge icon appears in the information display.
EV Charge resets to Auto EV when you switch off your vehicle. You may select EV Charge again using the EV button during your next drive.
EV Later
Ford Escape. Plug-In Hybrid Electric Vehicle Drive Modes In EV Later, your vehicle runs on the engine as needed and saves most of the available electric range for later use in Auto EV or EV Now mode.
For example, your initial drive is at high speeds on open roads, but later your drive is at low speeds in an urban area where electric only driving is most efficient. In this case, you can select EV Later for the higher speed portion of your trip and then select Auto EV or EV Now for the urban portion.
When you enable EV Later, a white EV Later icon appears in the information display. EV Later resets to Auto EV when you switch off your vehicle. You may select EV Later again using the EV button during your next drive.
When you select EV Later with the vehicle fully charged or near fully charged, some electric-only driving range is used to discharge the battery. This is to allow for full operation of the regenerative braking system.
EV Now
Ford Escape. Plug-In Hybrid Electric Vehicle Drive Modes This mode provides an electric only driving experience. Do not use EV Now when towing a trailer. The electric drive system is not designed for towing. An EV Now information on demand screen appears. This screen allows you to enable your engine while in EV Now mode.
Your vehicle could accelerate slower and the top speed could be lower than when in Auto EV mode.
You can enable your engine at any time by using one of the following methods:
Press the OK button on the steering wheel when viewing the EV Now information on demand screen. Your vehicle enables the engine as needed and returns to EV Now mode when no longer needed.
Fully press the accelerator pedal. A pop-up message appears. Press the OK button on the steering wheel to enable the engine. When the engine is no longer needed, your vehicle returns to EV Now. The message disappears if you release the accelerator pedal.
Press the EV button. This exits EV Now mode and permits engine operation. To return to EV Now mode, select it again using the EV button.
Your vehicle could enter Engine Enabled mode if system conditions require it. A message displays if this occurs. This is a normal function of the system and your vehicle returns to EV Now mode when possible.
When you enable EV Now mode, a blue EV Now icon appears in the information display. If your vehicle is in Engine Enabled mode, the EV Now icon is amber. EV Now exits when your available electric range reaches zero.

[RQ3]

福特如果沿用丰田的技术肯定是不行的。丰田的混动是汽油机为主的，中国新出的一般是电机为主的。汽油机为主的还需要复杂的变速器，效率不容易提高，变速箱也很难便宜。电机为主的，就是类似特斯拉加个发电机，就是不再需要那么多的电池了，把省下的重量用来放高效燃油机和发电机了。路径不一样，电机为主要想性能好就要提高电动机功率。好在目前超过200马力的电动机很多家都能做，高端的直接彪到1000马力，妥妥跑车的功率。

沿用过来的，ecvt，几种模式切换，单独电机，单独发动机，默认模式就是急加速时发动机和电机同时，除了电池不大，整体是偏向于省油的设计。当年bmw i3我记得可以配增程发动机给电池充电，但是不符合环保要求，是没有退税还是不能走carpool，政策不鼓励

2017年时大概的性能


a 118-hp electric motor working in cahoots with a 141-hp 2.0-liter Atkinson-cycle four-cylinder to put out a total of 188 horsepower.

[RQ3]

理想的增程效率还不错，其实增程没有那么不堪，吉利的直驱插混最大航程 1000km 以上，比起当增程模式用也才高 50km，就是不到 5% 的差别。现在增程这个名词容易被国内市场接受，技术上高大上的直驱插混也挂着超级增程的名头在卖。

国内就喜欢炒作各种概念，这个什么直驱插混，基本上就是混动技术改来改去，有提升没什么革命性变化

[RQ3]

米国油便宜人穷，买不起插混增程车。

都是穷人买，有钱的谁在乎那点油钱买混动，要不大排量油车，要不就高性能电车

[BCQ1]

AWD没啥用，我开了5年，上山爬坡人说AWD不行要4WD才行
基本没用过，下雨的时候PRESS一下BUTTON，没有明显作用
白费钱了

[Dahuaidanyimei]

不是所有人都像你一样不在乎那个差价的

[Jack12345]

AWD没啥用，我开了5年，上山爬坡人说AWD不行要4WD才行
基本没用过，下雨的时候PRESS一下BUTTON，没有明显作用
白费钱了

看你 什么地方。我 这边 冬天 经常有雪的，必须要用 AWD 的，要不然 稍微 有一点的 上坡路，就上不去了。

还有，我的AWD 不要 button 的，好像 随时在线的

[lsheng]

国内就喜欢炒作各种概念，这个什么直驱插混，基本上就是混动技术改来改去，有提升没什么革命性变化

全世界也没啥不同吧，iphone从1到14了。有啥革命性变化？

[RQ3]

全世界也没啥不同吧，iphone从1到14了。有啥革命性变化？

前几代还有些大的提升，现在不仅iPhone，智能手机都没什么大的革命性变化了，慢慢挤牙膏，cpu快点，内存大点，像素提升一些